Before
                      THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
                                          ---
               In Re:  Hearing to consider petition of Alfred Natale and
                       David Crumb to rezone part of Parcel No.
                       19/15/1/22-27.
                                          ---
                     Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
                                     State Avenue
                           Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
                    Monday, August 13, 2007 beginning at 6:35 p.m.
                                          ---
               PRESENT:       JOHN E. KERRICK, Chairperson
                              HEIDI A. PICKARD, Vice-Chairperson
                              ANNE SINCAVAGE, Board Member
                              HUGH LAMBERTON, Board Member
                              JAMIE B. KEENER, Board Member
                              EMANUEL KAPELSOHN, ESQUIRE, Solicitor
               ALSO PRESENT:  PHYLLIS HAASE, Zoning Officer
                                          ---

               APPEARANCE:    JAMES V. FARERI, ESQUIRE
                              712 Monroe Street
                              Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
                              For the Petitioner

               ________________________________________________________
                                    PANKO REPORTING
                              537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
                            Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
                                    (570) 421-3620

                                                            2
        1                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Good evening.  I'd
        2   like to call to order the hearing on the
        3   petition of Alfred Natale and David Crumb to
        4   rezone part of Parcel No. 19/15/1/22-27 located
        5   on Route 940 between Christ The King Family
        6   Center and the First National Bank of Palmerton,
        7   from low density residential to commercial.
        8                  Public notice of this hearing was
        9   published in the Pocono Record setting this
       10   hearing for this date and time.  Some of you
       11   will recall that we had a previous hearing or
       12   attempted hearing on this same topic; and
       13   although the neighborhood was posted and
       14   neighborhood residents were given notice of it,
       15   inadvertently notice was not sent to the
       16   petitioners or their counsel, and so this is a
       17   rehearing of that same matter.
       18                  And I note that Attorney Fareri is
       19   here on behalf of the petitioner and I would ask
       20   first, for clarification or a position of the
       21   petitioner on one issue; which is, that that
       22   attempted hearing was held several months ago,
       23   as you know, there were, I think, two people
       24   here, two or three who spoke on the issue at
       25   that time believing, as we all did, that that

                                                            3
        1   was a valid hearing at that time -- there is a
        2   transcript of that hearing -- are you willing to
        3   have that testimony still stand before the board
        4   that was given several months ago?
        5                  MR. FARERI:  I don't think I could
        6   do that because I -- number one, I've never seen
        7   the transcript, I have no idea what they said.
        8                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Okay.
        9                  MR. FARERI:  And I wasn't present
       10   to cross examine.  And I see there's people
       11   here, I'm assuming there's interested parties
       12   here tonight since we advertised and they have
       13   the opportunity to come again.
       14                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  All right.  So
       15   you're not willing to accept -- to have that
       16   prior testimony stand?
       17                  MR. FARERI:  I don't think that
       18   would be proper.
       19                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  All right.  In
       20   that case, I would have to advise the board to
       21   disregard anything you may remember that was
       22   offered in testimony previously and to accept
       23   this testimony, just what you hear here tonight.
       24                  At this point then I would ask the
       25   petitioner or petitioner's counsel to proceed

                                                            4
        1   and present what you wish to us.
        2                  MR. FARERI:  All right.  This --
        3   by way of opening this, this matter was --
        4   actually has a history here in the township.  I
        5   don't know how many of the present supervisors
        6   are aware of it, I don't think any of the
        7   supervisors that are sitting now on the board
        8   were here when this first came before the
        9   township, but there was a petition filed
       10   actually back in 2003.  It came before the
       11   board, I think, in 2004 and the board denied
       12   that petition.
       13                  It was basically the same subject
       14   matters we'll hear tonight with the variation
       15   that I'll get to in a minute, but it was denied
       16   and there was an appeal taken to the court of
       17   common pleas which is still pending as I speak.
       18                  I, and the Attorney Kapelsohn,
       19   your solicitor, entered into a stipulation with
       20   the court, it was approved by Judge Cheslock,
       21   stating that the applicant would come back here
       22   with a -- basically what amounts to a settlement
       23   proposal, an offer on the proposal of the
       24   position that the applicant originally took.
       25   And if the board approved that, the case would

                                                            5
        1   be over.  If the board doesn't approve that,
        2   then it goes back and continues in litigation.
        3                  The original petition asked that
        4   the entire property be zoned from residential to
        5   commercial.  The present petition, if you happen
        6   to have the opportunity to look at the map that
        7   accompanied the petition, actually presents what
        8   I'm going to refer to as a compromised position,
        9   whereby the line is redrawn further in the rear
       10   of the property but not all the way in the back
       11   of the property as was originally the case.
       12                  We have a map, I think it's
       13   attached to the petition, but I have a large
       14   copy of the map here which I'd like to show
       15   everybody.  We've marked it as Applicant's No.
       16   1.  And this was a map that was drawn by Chuck
       17   Niclaus, who actually was the engineer at one
       18   point in the township, who drew the zoning map.
       19   And we ask -- we specifically asked Chuck to
       20   look at this because he had drawn one of the
       21   zoning maps in the township.
       22                  The property that we're talking
       23   about is the property that shows the proposed C
       24   zone and proposed R-1 zone.  The property is on
       25   940.  It's -- there's a bank to the left of the

                                                            6
        1   property and there's a church to the right of
        2   the property along with Paper Street,
        3   Chestnut Street.  You can see where the existing
        4   line is on the property.
        5                  Do you want --
        6                  MR. KERRICK:  You have to put one
        7   on the board for the audience.  Sorry.
        8                  MR. FARERI:  No problem.
        9                  Where the existing line is drawn
       10   you can see where it says existing C zone and
       11   existing R-1 zone.  The result is that this
       12   property, which is like 3.98 acres, has one acre
       13   in the commercial zone and three acres in the
       14   residential zone.  We're proposing to draw the
       15   line in a diagonal fashion that's set forth here
       16   by the engineer such that roughly there would be
       17   two acres for each zoning district; two acres
       18   commercial and two acres residential.  It's --
       19   they're approximate measurements, but that's --
       20                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Could you do your
       21   indicating over there so that everyone in the
       22   audience could see what you're -- maybe we can
       23   turn this back slightly toward us so that we can
       24   see it at the same time.
       25                  MR. FARERI:  You tell me when it's

                                                            7
        1   turned enough.
        2                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Annie, why don't
        3   you tell us when you can see it?
        4                  MS. SINCAVAGE:  That's fine.
        5   That's fine.
        6                  MR. FARERI:  That's good?
        7                  The property that we're talking --
        8   this is Route 940 here.  The property we're
        9   talking about is this oddly shaped property
       10   here.  Existing zoning line is here.  This is
       11   commercial.  The base is 940 and this is
       12   residential back in through here.
       13                  What the applicant is asking the
       14   board to do is, to redraw that line so that the
       15   commercial zone would be from this line going to
       16   940 and there still would be two acres of
       17   residential zone back here.  So we feel that
       18   even with that redrawn there's more than
       19   sufficient area that's still zoned residential
       20   that would protect the residential uses in the
       21   rear, and that the commercial use of the
       22   property would not interfere or disturb the
       23   residential character of the neighborhood.
       24                  And, again, that's presented as a
       25   compromise to what is filed in court.  What's

                                                            8
        1   filed in court is that we asked that the entire
        2   property be zoned commercial, that's what's
        3   being appealed.  So the applicant is basically
        4   saying we ask two plus or minus acres remain
        5   residential and asking the board to consider
        6   making that -- the other portion the
        7   commercially zoned.
        8                  And I would just point out that
        9   the line that's drawn there is consistent with
       10   the line where the church is.  It picks up where
       11   the rear of the zoning line, where the church is
       12   and continues -- would continue up to where the
       13   existing line is, which goes through the --
       14   essentially through the middle of the adjoining
       15   property, which I understand is the bank
       16   property.  And I don't know it for a fact, but I
       17   think the bank property is more towards the
       18   property here, but whether there's any
       19   commercial use that goes over that line -- it
       20   may be nonconforming, I don't know.
       21                  And that basically is our
       22   position.  We're asking basically to -- it's a
       23   compromise position.  We think it's reasonable,
       24   we think it accommodates both the neighbors, as
       25   well as the applicant, and it makes sense.

                                                            9
        1                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  I remember back
        2   from several years ago you had various arguments
        3   for why you thought the township zoning map and
        4   the current zoning was in error.
        5                  Can you explain that to us or is
        6   that no longer part of your position?
        7                  MR. FARERI:  Well, I think it's --
        8   I don't think it's relevant.  What's relevant
        9   is, this is presented as a compromise to what is
       10   important.  We think it's a fair and reasonable
       11   proposal.
       12                  I mean, originally -- it's of
       13   record -- the testimony was originally that when
       14   the applicant's representatives went to find out
       15   where the line was, that there was confusion in
       16   the township about where the line was.  And the
       17   applicant actually thought that the line was
       18   somewhere other than where it is, and there was
       19   some testimony to that effect.
       20                  So that the applicant basically
       21   was taking the position that it was not the
       22   applicant's fault, the applicant did not realize
       23   where the correct line was.
       24                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Is there such
       25   testimony tonight?

                                                           10
        1                  MR. FARERI:  There is no such
        2   testimony tonight.
        3                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Okay.
        4                  MR. FARERI:  But I'd point out,
        5   Mr. Solicitor, that in the event that the
        6   board -- in accordance with the stipulation that
        7   is of record with Judge Cheslock, in the event
        8   that this board should reject this proposal,
        9   that we go back to that first appeal and we
       10   don't --  there won't be an appeal in this
       11   provision here, whatever the board decides.  We
       12   go back to our original position and so the
       13   township would go back to its original position.
       14                  So this basically is, as I've
       15   indicated to you and I'm indicating to the board
       16   tonight, is a compromise position of the
       17   applicant that we're asking the board to take a
       18   look at.
       19                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Do you have
       20   anything further?
       21                  MR. FARERI:  I have nothing
       22   further.
       23                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Do you have any
       24   witnesses that you want to present?
       25                  MR. FARERI:  I don't believe so.

                                                           11
        1   I'll be happy to answer -- of course answer any
        2   questions.
        3                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Does anyone on the
        4   board have any questions of Attorney Fareri?
        5                  MR. KERRICK:  I have a question on
        6   your proposal.
        7                  Where you have your line drawn, in
        8   our zoning ordinance, if it splits -- if your
        9   property is split by the two zones you can still
       10   go so many feet.  I'm not sure of the exact
       11   number, but your proposal is that's it, no
       12   commercial past there or would you still look
       13   for that buffer?  And that's really not a
       14   buffer, but you could go --
       15                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Let me speak to
       16   that and certainly let's hear from Attorney
       17   Fareri, but my understanding, based on prior
       18   conversations and agreements, is that if this
       19   were to be permitted, it would be the line,
       20   definitely not the line to be extended by any
       21   further provision.  I think that was in the
       22   letter that I wrote back some time ago.
       23                  MR. FARERI:  Attorney Kapelsohn,
       24   last year when there was a different board here,
       25   maybe -- I'm sure some of you were on the board

                                                           12
        1   at that time, had conversations with regard to
        2   this compromise.  It did include in that
        3   provision, that's correct.
        4                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  So in other words,
        5   it wouldn't be subject to the further extension.
        6                  MR. FARERI:  If you grant it and
        7   make that a condition of it, that's your
        8   discretion, I believe.
        9                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Anything else from
       10   the board?
       11                  All right.  Then members of the
       12   public who wish to speak?
       13                  Please identify yourself for the
       14   court reporter.
       15                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  I'm Rose
       16   LiCastri.  We own the property at 1 Ana Road,
       17   which is really the one that is involved right
       18   next to it.  I bought it because it's private
       19   and residential and now it's not only commercial
       20   but they're going to extend it down, which is
       21   really next -- you know, I don't know what
       22   they're gonna put in there.  And there goes all
       23   the privacy and the reason for buying that piece
       24   of property.
       25                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Could you show us

                                                           13
        1   just where your property is located, please?
        2                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  I'm right
        3   here.  I'm behind the Christ The King Church.
        4   So 1 Ana Road is the first -- over here it has
        5   Richard Rye (phonetic), we're the new owners,
        6   LiCastri.  So if he extends this, it's like -- I
        7   don't know.  I'm not happy with it at all,
        8   because there's not only enough that, you know,
        9   would be commercial up here, which is 940,
       10   whatever he wants to do, that's bad enough; but
       11   extending the line --
       12                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Hold on one
       13   second.  I've actually committed an error which
       14   is, I should really have the court reporter
       15   swearing you.  So would you remain standing
       16   please and would --
       17                  Is there anyone else who intends
       18   to speak this evening?
       19                  Would you all stand if you would,
       20   anyone who intends to give testimony at this
       21   hearing?
       22                  And would the court reporter
       23   please swear all of them?
       24                  And you need to give your names to
       25   us, if you would.

                                                           14
        1                  MR. ROBERT McBRIDE:  Robert
        2   McBride.
        3                  MS. STEPHANIE McBRIDE:  Stephanie
        4   McBride.
        5                  MS. ROSEMARY POTTER:  Rosemary
        6   Potter.
        7                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  Rose LiCastri.
        8                  MS. CHRISTINA ROCK:  Christina
        9   Rock.
       10                  (Robert McBride, Stephanie
       11   McBride, Rosemary Potter, Rose LiCastri and
       12   Christina Rock were sworn.)
       13                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Ma'am, you've
       14   indicated to us already where your property is
       15   located.  And rather than have you repeat
       16   everything that you've said, may I just ask you,
       17   now that you're under oath, would your
       18   presentation to this hearing be the same as what
       19   you've already given?
       20                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  Yes, yes.
       21                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  And is there
       22   anything else you wish to add to it?
       23                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  No.  It's just
       24   that -- you know, I don't know if you're
       25   familiar, it is very private, it's very nice.

                                                           15
        1   940, whatever they want to do, it's low density
        2   behind my neighbors.  Behind would be the
        3   church, the other one is the back.  Not only
        4   they want a commercial, they want to extend it;
        5   so you don't know what's gonna be in there.
        6   Thank you.
        7                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  May I ask Attorney
        8   Fareri, do your clients have any current plans
        9   for what they intend to build there?
       10                  MR. FARERI:  No, we can't because
       11   we don't know how much land is available for
       12   commercial zone.  I mean, obviously it's driven
       13   by how much land to build.  If it's two acres,
       14   it's not going to be anything substantial.
       15                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Do you have any
       16   questions of the woman who just testified?
       17                  MR. FARERI:  Ma'am, do you
       18   understand that the property that's -- this
       19   property here, this parcel here, that's going to
       20   be residential, if this goes through that's
       21   still going to be residential?
       22                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  Look how
       23   you're surrounding --
       24                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  One at a time,
       25   please.

                                                           16
        1                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  -- extended.
        2   That limit is extended down.
        3                  MR. FARERI:  Right.  But the
        4   property immediately adjacent to yours is still
        5   going to be zoned residential.
        6                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  This line
        7   going down, I know on paper it looks very
        8   little, but I'm sure that it's taking enough.
        9                  MR. FARERI:  And there's a church
       10   behind you now?
       11                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  Yeah.
       12                  MR. FARERI:  Did you know that the
       13   front part of this property was -- do you know
       14   that was zoned commercial when you bought the
       15   property?
       16                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  That's a low
       17   density according to the letter too.  And they
       18   want to bring it to commercial, no?
       19                  MR. FARERI:  The property's -- the
       20   front of that property is commercial as we sit
       21   here right now.
       22                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  All right.
       23   That's a small piece so there's no problem.
       24                  MR. FARERI:  And there's a bank in
       25   the corner here, correct?

                                                           17
        1                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  That's fine.
        2                  MR. FARERI:  Okay.
        3                  MS. ROSE LICASTRI:  But now look
        4   at the piece that they want to bring commercial
        5   all the way down.
        6                  MR. FARERI:  I have nothing else.
        7                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Thank you.  Anyone
        8   on the board have any questions for her?
        9                  All right.  Who else from the
       10   public then?
       11                  Yes, ma'am.  Please identify
       12   yourself to the court reporter.
       13                  MS. ROSEMARY POTTER:  I'm
       14   Rosemarie Potter.  I'm actually her daughter.
       15   And one of my concerns is, will it bring down
       16   our property value?  There is a church and a
       17   bank which feels pretty safe.  We have no idea
       18   what kind of business will be going in, so
       19   there's that question, you know, you don't --
       20   you have no idea what will be next to you.  And
       21   also it's a very quiet road.  There are kids
       22   that ride their bikes down.  Will that increase
       23   traffic with people coming across to go to that
       24   business?  There's lots of entrances into the
       25   development.

                                                           18
        1                  I moved in there two years ago
        2   because it is quiet and children can play in the
        3   street and it's fine.  Having no idea what kind
        4   of business is going in there, is that going to
        5   increase traffic?  And, you know, it does
        6   change -- it will change -- I'm on that same
        7   road, I'm on Ana Road also.  So how will that
        8   increase traffic, how -- will that reduce
        9   property values?
       10                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  First, I'd like to
       11   ask whether the petitioner has any response to
       12   any of that?
       13                  MR. FARERI:  With regard to
       14   traffic, I mean, I can't see any commercial
       15   development causing any additional traffic on
       16   Ana Road.  I mean, if it's -- if the front part
       17   is commercially developed, I mean, the ingress
       18   and egress is going to be from 940, as the
       19   developer would want.  And the developer is
       20   going to want to draw his customers in from the
       21   highway, not from the back road there.  And the
       22   proposal, as I pointed out to the last witness,
       23   basically, you know, protects and insulates that
       24   residential community.  You would basically be
       25   the same as it is now.

                                                           19
        1                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Do you have any
        2   questions of --
        3                  MR. FARERI:  I have no questions.
        4                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  -- this witness?
        5                  Anyone on the board have any
        6   questions of her?
        7                  All right.  Who else from the
        8   public wishes to speak?
        9                  MS. STEPHANIE McBRIDE:  I have a
       10   question.
       11                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Identify yourself.
       12                  MS. STEPHANIE McBRIDE:  Oh, I'm
       13   sorry.  Stephanie McBride.
       14                  The property that extends behind
       15   the bank, is that owned by the bank, do we know?
       16                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  I believe it's the
       17   same lot, isn't it?
       18                  MR. FARERI:  It's the same lot.
       19                  MS. STEPHANIE McBRIDE:  My concern
       20   was actually something that was as a result of,
       21   I believe, what you had -- omitted as saying,
       22   Ms. Sincavage, in the last -- in the March
       23   minutes, that said if -- and correct me if I'm
       24   wrong -- if you all allow the movement of this
       25   line, what would stop -- you would have no

                                                           20
        1   justification particularly for stopping the bank
        2   from moving its line back further as well which
        3   would put further commercial development into --
        4   sort of more into the neighborhood.  So -- did I
        5   have that right?
        6                  MS. SINCAVAGE:  I think that was
        7   close along that line, yes.
        8                  MS. STEPHANIE McBRIDE:  You
        9   weren't making a statement really one way or
       10   another, but you were making an observation.
       11   And so that -- I would have that same -- I would
       12   have that concern too, that having moved that
       13   why not move the other, why not move -- we're
       14   concerned about the property that's on the other
       15   corner as well that's commercial.
       16                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Do you live in
       17   that area?
       18                  MS. STEPHANIE McBRIDE:  Yes.
       19                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Where do you live?
       20                  MS. STEPHANIE McBRIDE:  We live on
       21   Hemlock.  And whereas Ana may not get increased
       22   traffic, Hemlock certainly will so -- people cut
       23   the corner already to avoid the light at 115 --
       24   at 940 and 115, so they come through the
       25   neighborhood that way.  And if it means getting

                                                           21
        1   up to that -- another business there, then it's
        2   an easy route so --
        3                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Does the
        4   petitioner have any questions of this witness?
        5                  MR. FARERI:  No, only to point out
        6   once again that I don't see how this change
        7   would result in increased traffic either on
        8   Hemlock or Ana Road, because the in-and-out
        9   traffic is going to be from 940 directly into
       10   the parcel.  I mean, I just looked at that map,
       11   there's no possible way you can get ingress,
       12   egress otherwise.  I don't think the board
       13   would -- neither did the applicant come in here
       14   and suggest that.  The board's not going to
       15   permit it through residential areas.  So I don't
       16   think that's a realistic concern.
       17                  As far as redrawing the line, I
       18   mean, there is no petition that I know of
       19   pending from the owner of that other parcel to
       20   redraw the line.  I mean, these proceedings have
       21   been -- these proceedings were initiated in
       22   2003.  So, I mean, the bank, you know, knows
       23   about them or should know about them or at least
       24   has constructive knowledge of them.  You would
       25   think they would know -- be concerned with

                                                           22
        1   what's going on with the adjacent parcel, has
        2   not certainly communicated with me about joining
        3   in any requests and it's not, you know evidenced
        4   any desire to redraw the line.
        5                  In terms of, you know, whether
        6   you're automatically, in essence, approving the
        7   second redrawing of that line of the bank
        8   property, I'd point out that there is a
        9   difference; and that is, that the property
       10   you're talking about is not developed, the other
       11   property is.  And I'm assuming that the bank is
       12   content with being a bank and intends to use
       13   what's there, would not really serve any purpose
       14   to draw the line back further because they
       15   already have the benefit of whatever use they
       16   have there.
       17                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Anyone on the
       18   board have any questions of Ms. McBride?
       19                  All right.  Who else from the
       20   public wishes to speak?
       21                  Mrs. Rock?
       22                  MS. CHRISTINA ROCK:  Hi, my name
       23   is Chris Rock.  I live at 29 Hemlock Road.  And
       24   I have a question before I continue.  Is
       25   everything that I said over the past three years

                                                           23
        1   not valid today; is that correct?
        2                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  No, that's not
        3   correct.  It is only the last hearing, several
        4   months ago, that is not now able to be
        5   considered by the board because that hearing was
        6   not properly notified to the petitioner's
        7   attorney.  But what you've said previously --
        8                  MS. CHRISTINA ROCK:  Okay.
        9                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  -- is still of
       10   record.
       11                  MS. CHRISTINA ROCK:  Great.  I
       12   want to make sure of that point because, again,
       13   I've been coming here for the past three years
       14   talking about this.  I've lived in Hemlock -- on
       15   Hemlock Road for seven years in May and
       16   everything that the other folks have said I
       17   totally agree with.  We purchased our property,
       18   quiet, we don't want increased traffic.
       19                  I, in the very beginning, was
       20   always questionable as to what they were going
       21   to put there.  Why were they not telling us what
       22   they're going to put there?  To me that's still
       23   very questionable regardless if it's two acres,
       24   three acres, regardless.
       25                  But I guess primary precedent, if

                                                           24
        1   you have to do it for this individual, you're
        2   going to have to do it for other people coming
        3   down the line.  And Natale/Crumb, when they
        4   purchased the property, should have known what
        5   the zoning boundaries were, just like we all
        6   have to know certain things when you purchase
        7   something based to their due diligence perhaps.
        8                  I don't think it's going to be
        9   fair to all of us homeowners if precedent will
       10   be changed because, like I said, what's going to
       11   stop them from other people coming down the road
       12   and decreasing our home values, the quietness,
       13   and everything that everybody else said.  I just
       14   think it's not fair and I really would
       15   appreciate it if the board would, again, deny
       16   this so it would not go any further.
       17                  Thank you.
       18                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Does the
       19   petitioner have any questions?
       20                  MR. FARERI:  Well, the concerns,
       21   again, seem to be increased traffic.  And once
       22   again, I don't see that as being -- the traffic
       23   being increased if this proposal is approved.
       24   As to the concern about precedent, I'm a
       25   township solicitor, I mean, these things are on

                                                           25
        1   a case-by-case basis.  The townships change
        2   boundaries all the time, it's not uncommon.
        3                  This particular property is, I
        4   would submit, unique because the boundary runs
        5   through the middle of the property and there's
        6   probably not a lot of property in the township
        7   that that occurs or in any other township, for
        8   that matter.  But generally when they draw these
        9   lines they try to draw them in accordance to
       10   where the properties are.
       11                  But I don't think -- and once
       12   again, I don't think the residential character
       13   of the neighborhood is going to be affected at
       14   all because there's two acres back that are
       15   going to be zoned residential.  I would submit
       16   that if that property is developed there would
       17   be no difference in that residential
       18   neighborhood than it is now.
       19                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Does anyone on the
       20   board have any questions of Mrs. Rock?
       21                  Any other member of the public
       22   wish to speak on this?
       23                  MS. ROSEMARIE POTTER:  I have one
       24   more question.
       25                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Yes.

                                                           26
        1                  MS. ROSEMARY POTTER:  How many
        2   acres are already zoned commercially for that
        3   property?
        4                  MR. FARERI:  It's approximately
        5   one.
        6                  MS. ROSEMARY POTTER:  And you're
        7   trying to increase it to two?
        8                  MR. FARERI:  Correct,
        9   approximately.
       10                  MS. ROSEMARY POTTER:  And you have
       11   no idea of what you want to the put on that
       12   property?  How do you know you need two and not
       13   one?  Like I'm just wondering, is there --
       14                  MR. FARERI:  It's not a matter of
       15   what you need, it's a matter of what you can do
       16   with how many acres you have.  I mean, under the
       17   current zoning ordinance, you know, you're
       18   constricted with one acre, where you have some
       19   more options if there's two.
       20                  And obviously, I'm not going to
       21   lie.  I mean, the developer would take as many
       22   acres as he could get.  I mean, that just makes
       23   sense.  But again, even if you want to see
       24   what's permitted there, you can just look at the
       25   ordinance, see what types of things would be

                                                           27
        1   permitted there.  I mean, if it is a -- you
        2   know, the front is a commercial zone and the
        3   township wants commercial uses along 940 in that
        4   area.
        5                  Again, it's two acres.  I mean,
        6   it's not going to be anything big because two
        7   acres doesn't give -- under the zoning ordinance
        8   doesn't give you that much space to work with.
        9   I mean, the type of setbacks and everything
       10   else, you're still fairly constrained.
       11                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Anyone else from
       12   the public have anything they wish to ask or
       13   add?
       14                  Anything from the board, any
       15   questions of any of the witnesses or petitioner?
       16                  MS. SINCAVAGE:  I just have a
       17   question.  Was a survey performed on this
       18   property before it was purchased?
       19                  MR. FARERI:  I don't believe so.
       20   I did not represent the applicant when the
       21   property was purchased.  Generally, it's fairly
       22   rare that a survey is done on the property.
       23                  MS. SINCAVAGE:  I find that hard
       24   to believe.
       25                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Any other

                                                           28
        1   questions?
        2                  Yes, sir.
        3                  MR. KEENER:  I comment about the
        4   depth of the lot.  If you look at the overall
        5   zoning map -- not this map but the one that's in
        6   the petition, if you look at the depth of the
        7   last one on the north side of 940, that depth is
        8   somewhat consistent with what is currently the
        9   depth of the zoning of that property on the
       10   commercial side.
       11                  Again, I don't know why it was
       12   placed exactly at that location but it seems as
       13   though, if you look a little further to the
       14   east, between the -- what's shown as Chestnut
       15   Street and Maple, there's approximately three
       16   lots there that have consistent depth as well.
       17                  MS. PICKARD:  I had a comment also
       18   just about there would be nothing precluding
       19   going to the zoning board for a variance with
       20   the specific project.  At the time there was
       21   one.
       22                  MR. FARERI:  You could go -- I
       23   mean, if it's this one acre or -- no.  I mean,
       24   you can't go get a variance -- you could always
       25   ask for some kind of a variance, but you

                                                           29
        1   couldn't ask for a variance to go past your
        2   boundary.
        3                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  But couldn't you
        4   ask for a -- let's say you were going to put
        5   something on the acre that is commercial except
        6   the building wouldn't have enough setback at the
        7   rear or something like that, you could ask for a
        8   variance --
        9                  MR. FARERI:  Sure, of course, you
       10   could.
       11                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  -- of that setback
       12   requirement.
       13                  MR. FARERI:  Yeah.
       14                  MR. KAPELSOHN:  Anything else from
       15   anyone?
       16                  Anything else from the public?
       17                  All right.  Then I close this
       18   hearing at 7:02 and let's take a five-minute
       19   recess please before -- ten?  Ten minute recess
       20   before we begin the board of supervisors.
       21                  (Hearing concluded at 7:02 p.m.)
       22                          ---
       23
       24
       25

                                                           30
        1
        2
        3
        4
        5
        6
        7
        8
        9
       10
       11                  I hereby certify that the
       12   proceedings and evidence are contained fully and
       13   accurately in the notes taken by me at the
       14   hearing in the above matter; and that the
       15   foregoing is a true and correct transcript of
       16   the same.
       17
       18
       19                             ______________________
       20                              EVILYS E. BRATHWAITE
       21
       22
       23
       24
       25