Before
THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
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In Re: Regular Business Meeting
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Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
State Avenue
Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
Monday, April 14, 2008, beginning at 10:45 a.m.
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PRESENT: JOHN E. KERRICK, Chairperson
HEIDI A. PICKARD, Vice-Chairperson
HUGH LAMBERTON, Board Member
JAMIE B. KEENER, Board Member
PATRICK M. ARMSTRONG, ESQUIRE, Solicitor
ALSO PRESENT: PHYLLIS HAASE, Zoning Officer
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______________________________________________________________
PANKO REPORTING
537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
(570) 421-3620
2
1 MR. KERRICK: I'd like to welcome
2 the fourth grade here this morning for our regular
3 business meeting of the Board of Supervisors of
4 Tobyhanna Township. At this time I'd like to call
5 the meeting to order with a Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Pledge of Allegiance was recited.)
7 MR. KERRICK: First on our agenda,
8 announcements.
9 MS. PICKARD: I'd like to announce
10 that spring cleanup will be April 21st to the 26th
11 at the transfer station on Sullivan Trail. Hours
12 of operations are Monday through Friday, eight to
13 four; Saturday, eight to three. And some of the
14 fees are $30 for a carload. Pickup truck or van
15 load, 45 to 70. One-ton truck maximum, 100 to
16 $130.
17 Bags of clothing, et cetera, $5
18 each. All appliances 25 to 40. And there's an
19 additional charge for appliances containing freon
20 not deactivated. And then there's a notice here.
21 If anybody needs a copy, we can get one for you at
22 the front desk.
23 MR. KERRICK: Thank you. Any
24 others?
25 MS. PICKARD: No.
3
1 MR. KERRICK: Next on our agenda,
2 consider the minutes of the February 11, 2008
3 meeting.
4 What's the board's pleasure?
5 MR. LAMBERTON: I'll make a motion
6 that the minutes of the February 11, 2008 meeting
7 be approved.
8 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the floor.
9 Do we have a second?
10 MS. PICKARD: I'll second the
11 motion.
12 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
13 Questions and comments from the
14 board on the motion?
15 Questions from the public on the
16 motion?
17 Call the vote.
18 Jamie?
19 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
20 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
21 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
23 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
24 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
25 Motion carried.
4
1 Next on our agenda, consider the
2 treasurer's report, bill pack dated April 14, 2008.
3 Total amount for board approval $642,811.71.
4 Do we have a motion?
5 MS. PICKARD: I'll make a motion
6 that we approve the April 14th bill pack in the
7 amount of the 642,811.71.
8 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the floor.
9 Do we have a second?
10 MR. KEENER: I'll second.
11 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
12 Questions or comments from the board
13 on the motion?
14 Questions or comments from the
15 public on the motion?
16 Call the vote.
17 Jamie?
18 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
20 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
22 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
23 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
24 Motion carried.
25 Next on our agenda, solicitor's
5
1 report.
2 MR. ARMSTRONG: We have two
3 ordinances for your consideration this morning; we
4 had previously two public hearings on them. We'll
5 go over them real quick one more time. The first
6 one is the ordinance that would amend the
7 subdivision and land development ordinance
8 establishing time deadlines for inactive plans.
9 What this does is, it gives the
10 township additional authority in denying any plans
11 that remain inactive for a period of six months or
12 more from the date of the last township engineer's
13 review letter. These are for plans where the
14 applicant submits the plan, gets a review letter
15 and does nothing for an extensive amount of time.
16 It's been advertised in the
17 newspaper for a public hearing and possible
18 consideration for adoption this morning. It's been
19 provided to the planning commission of the
20 township, as well as the county planning
21 commission. We've received comments and the
22 township planning commission is in favor of it and
23 has recommended approval of it. And it's also been
24 available at the Monroe County Law Library, as well
25 as the township offices, as well as the public
6
1 newspapers for public availability.
2 Are there any comments from the
3 board with respect to this particular ordinance?
4 We will open it now for any public
5 comment. Are there any public comments on this
6 SALDO amendment? Seeing there are none --
7 MR. KEENER: I'll make a motion we
8 adopt Ordinance 464 relative to SALDO change
9 regarding deadlines for inactive plans.
10 MR. LAMBERTON: Second the motion.
11 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second on
12 the floor.
13 Any questions or comments from the
14 board?
15 Questions or comments from the
16 public on the motion?
17 Call the vote.
18 Jamie?
19 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
20 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
21 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
23 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
24 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
25 Motion carried.
7
1 MR. ARMSTRONG: The next ordinance
2 we have is proposed Ordinance 465 with respect to
3 the zoning map change. There was also a public
4 hearing held this morning with respect to this
5 ordinance. It's an ordinance that is proposing the
6 rezoning of the properties identified on Exhibits A
7 and B of the ordinance. It is proposing the
8 rezoning of Monroe County tax map Parcel No.
9 19/94521 and a portion of the Tax No. 19/20/2/85
10 from the R-2 medium density district to the C,
11 commercial, district.
12 This is a result of an advertisement
13 in the newspaper. It's been advertised two times
14 pursuant to the Municipalities' Planning Code.
15 It's been provided to the Monroe County Law Library
16 for public availability, as well as the public
17 newspaper and this office.
18 Is there any comment from the board
19 at this time? Seeing it is an ordinance up for
20 adoption, we'll open it up to the public for any
21 public comment for a public hearing.
22 Is there any public comment at this
23 time?
24 Seeing there is none, does the board
25 wish to take action on this ordinance at this time?
8
1 MR. KEENER: I'll make a motion we
2 adopt Ordinance No. 465, rezoning a portion of the
3 property along 115 from R-2 to commercial district
4 as written.
5 MR. KERRICK: We have a motion on
6 the floor.
7 Do we have a second?
8 MR. LAMBERTON: Second the motion.
9 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
10 Questions or comments from the
11 board?
12 Questions or comments from the
13 public?
14 Call the vote.
15 Jamie?
16 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
17 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
18 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
20 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: And I'll vote in
22 favor. Motion carried.
23 Next on our agenda, new business.
24 2008 pool fees.
25 Heidi, I'll turn that over to you.
9
1 MS. PICKARD: Okay. We were going
2 to adopt pool fees for the township pool back here
3 in the park and we were suggesting that the rates
4 be changed this year to increase from $50 to $75
5 for the rate of a family membership. Individual
6 memberships for adults 13 -- well, for those 13
7 through adults, through 65, would be $50. Under
8 12, membership for the season will be 25; and 65
9 and older would be $40.
10 The daily rates would be $4 for
11 adult; $3 for those 13 to 17; $2 for 12 and under;
12 and seniors over 65. And we found it necessary to
13 increase those fees due to the rise in fuel costs
14 to heat the pool and for the staff lifeguards whose
15 salaries have increased.
16 And I'll make a motion that we put
17 those rates in at $75 for the family; 50 for 13 to
18 65; 12 and under, 25; and 65 and up, 40. And,
19 again, the daily rates for adults $4; 13 to 17, $3;
20 12 and under; and over 65 at $2 per day. And I
21 think we have an additional family member -- or an
22 additional member at $10, the same as that was
23 previously.
24 MR. KERRICK: We have a motion on
25 the floor.
10
1 Do we have a second?
2 MR. LAMBERTON: Second the motion.
3 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
4 Any questions or comments from the
5 board?
6 MR. KEENER: Yeah. How many kids go
7 to the pool? Raise your hands. All right, thank
8 you.
9 MR. KERRICK: Any other questions or
10 comments?
11 Call the vote.
12 Jamie?
13 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
14 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
15 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
16 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
17 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
18 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
19 Motion carried.
20 Next on our agenda, lawn care bids.
21 We had six bidders, a lot of variation in price.
22 Do you want those for the minutes?
23 Shall I read them into the minutes or -- Middlesex
24 Landscaping Company was the low bidder. Total for
25 Keiper Ball Fields, Blakeslee Firehouse, Locust
11
1 Ridge Field, sewer treatment plant, and emergency
2 services was $300 per cut.
3 Next was Cut It Right Tree Service.
4 They were a thousand dollars. MD Lawn Care, 355.
5 C.R. Landscaping, 470.
6 Who is this?
7 MS. PICKARD: Livziey's.
8 MR. KERRICK: Livziey's Tried & True
9 Lawn Care, 915. And JD's Lawn & Home Services,
10 632. Low bid being Middlesex Landscape Company.
11 What's the board's pleasure?
12 MS. PICKARD: I'll make a motion we
13 approve Middlesex Landscape Company for the lowest
14 bids for the lawn service for the 2008 season.
15 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the floor.
16 Do we have a second?
17 MR. KEENER: Second.
18 MR. KERRICK: Questions or comments
19 from the board?
20 MR. KEENER: Yeah. Do we contact
21 them for the cuttings or do they do it on an
22 as-needed basis?
23 MR. ED TUTRONE: They do it every
24 eight to ten days roughly. It's up to them to be
25 responsible for it. We only contact them if
12
1 there's a special event going on at one of the ball
2 fields and they need to do it extra.
3 MR. KEENER: Okay. Do we have their
4 insurances? Is that part of the bid package?
5 MR. ED TUTRONE: No. What happens
6 is, once it's awarded then they have to provide the
7 insurance certificate.
8 MR. KERRICK: Any other questions?
9 Questions from the public on the
10 motion?
11 Call the vote.
12 Jamie?
13 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
14 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
15 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
16 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
17 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
18 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
19 Motion carried.
20 Next on our agenda, letter of
21 support for Tunkhannock open space/purchase of
22 Silver property. Basically we just need a motion
23 to authorize Heidi to write and sign the letter of
24 support.
25 MR. LAMBERTON: So moved.
13
1 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the floor
2 from Hugh.
3 MS. PICKARD: I'll second the
4 motion.
5 MR. KERRICK: Questions from the
6 board?
7 Questions or comments from the
8 public?
9 Call the vote.
10 Jamie?
11 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
12 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
13 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
14 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
15 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
16 MR. KERRICK: And I'll vote in
17 favor. Motion carried.
18 Next, basically the same thing,
19 letter of support for Camp Minsi conservation
20 easement project; authorize Heidi to write and sign
21 the letter.
22 MS. PICKARD: I just wanted to state
23 that Camp Minsi was looking for funding to repair
24 their dam. And this is a side project of the
25 easement that was being rented by the Wildlands
14
1 Conservancy, and they were just looking for a
2 letter of support on that.
3 MR. KERRICK: Do we have a motion?
4 MR. LAMBERTON: I'll second the
5 motion.
6 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
7 Questions or comments from the
8 board?
9 MR. KEENER: Just a comment. I got
10 a call from the homeowners association manager,
11 Stillwater Lake Estates, expressing some concern
12 about the frontage. There's a parcel -- I guess we
13 didn't get a copy of the map, but there's a parcel
14 along 940 that's not being put into the
15 conservation easement.
16 As you're aware, there's a potential
17 for the entrance to Stillwater Estates to be
18 eliminated if and when the southbound 380 ramp is
19 realigned to Long Pond Road, and that there's a
20 portion of property that the boy scouts currently
21 own that may be needed for a new access into
22 Stillwater Estates.
23 I haven't seen the maps so I am not
24 able to confirm it, but I just wanted to put that
25 on the record.
15
1 MR. KERRICK: Would you want to
2 change the motion in any way or --
3 MR. KEENER: No. To be honest with
4 you, I prefer that that piece not be in the
5 conservation easement, that way we do have some
6 options going forward. But unfortunately I wasn't
7 able to see the map to confirm that it's not in
8 the --
9 MR. JEFFREY M. EVANS: It's not in
10 there. It's the rear portion only, Jamie.
11 MR. KEENER: Okay.
12 MR. KERRICK: Any questions or
13 comments from the public on the motion?
14 Call the vote.
15 Jamie?
16 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
17 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
18 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
20 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: And I'll vote in
22 favor. Motion carried.
23 Next on our agenda, S.I.D.E.
24 Corporation, Lot 13.
25 Do you need to come up?
16
1 MS. ANN SINCAVAGE: I don't think
2 so.
3 MR. KERRICK: The letter is pretty
4 much self-explanatory.
5 MS. PICKARD: We're just looking for
6 a time extension for the recordation of the plans
7 until the MPDS and the conservation district
8 approve it.
9 MR. KERRICK: Do we have a motion?
10 MR. KEENER: I make a motion we
11 provide a time extension to June 30, 2008 for
12 recording plans.
13 MS. PICKARD: I'll second the
14 motion.
15 MR. KERRICK: I just have one
16 comment. There was a request the last time we did
17 extensions that we coincide with our meeting date.
18 Would that be a possibility that we could extend it
19 to July, that meeting date in July, or would the
20 board choose to stay away?
21 MS. PICKARD: We already approved
22 the plans. We're just looking for them --
23 MR. KEENER: If we need to extend it
24 again --
25 MR. KERRICK: Would you amend your
17
1 motion?
2 MR. KEENER: Yes. I'll amend my
3 motion to be July 14th.
4 MS. PICKARD: I'll amend my second.
5 MR. KERRICK: Amended motion on the
6 floor and second.
7 Any questions from the board?
8 Questions or comments from the
9 public?
10 Call the vote.
11 Jamie?
12 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
13 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
14 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
15 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
16 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
17 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
18 Next on our agenda, open space/DCNR
19 grant for Creek View property.
20 Heidi?
21 MS. PICKARD: I think we're going to
22 turn that over to Anne Sincavage, our open space
23 person.
24 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: I believe John
25 Gorham e-mailed you the application on Friday. Did
18
1 you receive that?
2 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah.
3 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Is it in your
4 reading packet?
5 MS. PICKARD: Unfortunately the
6 grant application I didn't but the narrative I did,
7 and I believe there are a couple revisions on the
8 narrative.
9 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yes. There
10 were a few revisions on the narrative, just a half
11 a mile, just basic typos.
12 MS. PICKARD: But Jamie had a --
13 MR. KERRICK: What page?
14 MR. KEENER: I'm going to make one
15 recommended change to the narrative on Page 2, Line
16 4, that we strike -- and I'll read the whole
17 paragraph: Long term community and recreation
18 benefits include preservation of the rural nature
19 of the township, protection from rampant
20 development in the Pocono Plateau and expansion --
21 and an expansion of natural areas open for the
22 public, including fishing on a -- and that's going
23 to be a half mile?
24 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yeah.
25 MR. KEENER: Of high quality cold
19
1 water fishery, bird watching, hiking, biking,
2 orienteering and other forms of passive recreation.
3 I would ask that we strike protection from rampant
4 development on the Pocono Plateau. I don't know
5 that that's necessarily the community and
6 recreation benefit, although some may think so.
7 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: I believe it's
8 going to be a mile if we add it to the recreation
9 benefit. So the one mile will be okay.
10 MR. KEENER: It will be enough room?
11 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yes.
12 MS. PICKARD: So this paragraph
13 where the two miles is a half a mile from Blakeslee
14 Corners from Paragraph 3 on Page 2 --
15 MR. KEENER: So it would be a whole
16 mile including the other --
17 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yes, including
18 the Marconi parcel and the adjacent parcel.
19 MS. PICKARD: Is that doable?
20 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yes.
21 MS. PICKARD: And you had some
22 information on the costs?
23 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: On Friday Dawn
24 e-mailed and said that they would be around
25 $12,000, but we did speak -- Rob Baxter from --
20
1 spoke with the sellers and we should be able to get
2 it down to $7,000 for the incidentals so that it's
3 a 50 percent of the match of what the township has
4 to come up with.
5 We're trying to secure funds
6 privately if we cannot have the sellers pay for the
7 incidentals.
8 MS. PICKARD: Now, if we would do
9 this, would this be submitted with Tunkhannock
10 Township as well, whatever the cost is?
11 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: If there are
12 any costs that the township has to pick up, it will
13 be a split between Tunkhannock and Tobyhanna
14 Township because it is a joint application.
15 MS. PICKARD: And could you go over
16 the funding for the property?
17 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Where the
18 funding sources are coming from?
19 MS. PICKARD: Yes.
20 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: There's a DCNR
21 application we are filling out right now that has
22 to be completed by April 25th. That amount is --
23 MR. KEENER: $230,450 is the grant
24 amount requested. Local matches 230,450 and the
25 total project is $460,900.
21
1 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: So if DCNR
2 grants us the $230,450, the joint open space fund
3 for the top of the mountain region, there is
4 approximately -- I believe there's 400 left because
5 the property down along the stream -- it was called
6 the Upper Lehigh. We allocated -- Tobyhanna
7 Township did allocate money for that project, but
8 that project is not going to happen.
9 So Christine Tori from the county
10 requested from Wildlands Conservancy that they give
11 us back that money. That money will go into the
12 top of the mountain open space pot, let's put it
13 that way, and that money will come out of that.
14 Whatever we cannot -- whatever DCNR does not grant
15 to us, it will come out of that fund. So that's
16 why we have to pay 50 percent; with that fund you
17 have to pay the incidentals.
18 MR. KEENER: Just, again, for the
19 record, if the local matches the 50 percent that we
20 have to come up with -- the application's showing
21 $217,500 from the top of the mountain regional open
22 space bond funds and then 12,950 split between Toby
23 and Tunk.
24 MS. PICKARD: And you think you can
25 get that down to $7,000?
22
1 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Right now, as
2 of this morning, we were hoping it will go down to
3 seven. And, like I said, if we cannot come up with
4 private funds for that or if the seller chooses to
5 not help us out with that, then it will be split
6 between the townships.
7 MS. PICKARD: And we are taking the
8 lead on this, but the application is both from
9 Tunkhannock and Tobyhanna Township?
10 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yes.
11 Tunkhannock Township, Dot, their secretary, did
12 fill out the application for us because she's very
13 familiar with the grant application process. She
14 did fill it out for us, but Tobyhanna Township,
15 since it is in our municipality, we are the lead.
16 MS. PICKARD: So we're the only ones
17 doing the resolution at this point?
18 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yes.
19 MR. ARMSTRONG: The only comment I
20 have on the resolution is, it appears to be the
21 resolution that DCNR uses in their application.
22 But just so the board is aware, before you pass it,
23 it's not just a resolution saying you're applying
24 for the grant. If you read the resolution, it's
25 also stating that you're not only applying for the
23
1 grant but in the event that you are granted the
2 grant money, you're agreeing to the grant agreement
3 with DCNR.
4 MR. KEENER: Is the grant agreement
5 in here as well or is there --
6 MR. ARMSTRONG: I have not seen the
7 grant agreement, that's why I wanted to make you
8 aware.
9 MS. PICKARD: I understood that was
10 all the same.
11 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: I believe when
12 we did the -- when we purchased Blue Ridge parcel
13 and Marconi parcel, Monroe County put in a lot of
14 the language, so we've already gone through this
15 with the language in the county restrictions. So
16 the deed restrictions that were placed on the
17 property, I believe, were very similar because they
18 used it as a model.
19 MS. PICKARD: The other question
20 that I had was basically if we couldn't get the
21 DCNR money or the open space money was not
22 available, we would not be committed to the
23 purchase of the property. It's contingent upon
24 those?
25 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yes.
24
1 MS. PICKARD: Is there an agreement?
2 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: No, not at this
3 time.
4 MS. PICKARD: And did we get the
5 appraisal --
6 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: We do not have
7 the actual copy of the appraisal, but the appraisal
8 for the property is 5,000 an acre.
9 MS. PICKARD: Which came to a total
10 of? It's about 85.
11 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: 430, it will be
12 the 430.
13 MR. KEENER: 460 --
14 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Yep. 460,900.
15 MS. PICKARD: Do we have a
16 resolution?
17 MR. LAMBERTON: What do you need
18 from us?
19 MS. PICKARD: She needs the
20 resolution.
21 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: I need the --
22 signed in blue ink, I need the certification. I
23 need the resolution and the signature pages. I
24 need two copies of those, signed in blue.
25 (Discussion off the record.)
25
1 MS. PICKARD: It will be 2008-008.
2 And I will make a motion that we adopt Resolution
3 2008-008 including the DCNR grant application.
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: Who is going to
5 be --
6 (Discussion off the record.)
7 MR. KERRICK: We have a motion on
8 the floor. Do we have a second?
9 MR. LAMBERTON: Second the motion.
10 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
11 Questions or comments?
12 Questions from the public on the
13 motion?
14 Call the vote.
15 Jamie?
16 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
17 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
18 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
20 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: And I'll vote in
22 favor. Motion carried.
23 Thank you, Ms. Sincavage.
24 MS. ANNE SINCAVAGE: Thank you. May
25 I just make a comment to the public? I want to
26
1 pass on that you are also welcome. We are having a
2 public meeting next Monday night here at seven
3 o'clock to discuss the -- we're working on the
4 adjacent property we just were speaking of. And it
5 is a master site plan for the Blakeslee natural
6 area over in Blakeslee. So you are all welcome to
7 attend. We are looking for public input on our
8 master site plan that we are completing right now.
9 Thank you.
10 MR. KERRICK: Thank you.
11 Next on the agenda, Lake Naomi
12 pedestrian and pedacycle easement.
13 MR. JEFFREY M. EVANS: Good morning,
14 everyone.
15 MR. KERRICK: Good morning.
16 MR. JEFFREY M. EVANS: As you know,
17 I spoke with you at your work session last week
18 regarding this matter, and I want to thank your
19 solicitor and engineer for their timely assistance
20 in getting the agreement finalized. This is for
21 the bicycle pedestrian bridge and path on two
22 sections of Route 423.
23 It's a partnership project between
24 the Lake Naomi Club and Tobyhanna Township. The
25 northerly section was constructed last year using
27
1 strictly private funds and that's received already
2 very heavy use. The southerly section is to be
3 constructed with a grant from the Federal
4 Government that goes to PennDOT, that then comes to
5 the -- can only come to the township.
6 Lake Naomi has provided the local
7 match that is required, as well as the land. The
8 agreement that you're being asked to approve is
9 really the easement agreement, and that assures
10 that the public will always have access to both the
11 sections: Both the section that we're waiting for
12 PennDOT to allow the township to release the bids
13 on, the southerly sections, as well as the
14 northerly section that was built strictly with
15 private funds.
16 On the copy you have it says 2007 on
17 the top. I've already changed that on the
18 signature copies. And I would ask you to approve
19 this subject to final confirmation of your
20 solicitor and engineer so that they're able to go
21 through it one more time.
22 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah, I mean, I sent
23 the revisions last week, and I haven't got a chance
24 to review this in detail; but it looks like he --
25 your solicitor has incorporated all the revisions
28
1 I've requested him to. And also there were some
2 comments from the township engineer with respect to
3 the legal descriptions. I don't know if he's
4 reviewed the latest version as well; but if
5 everything is as it should be, it should be fine.
6 There's nothing wrong with that motion subject to
7 our final review of the revised easement.
8 MR. KEENER: I'll make a motion that
9 we approve the agreement and grant the pedestrian
10 and bicycle easement for the path through Lake
11 Naomi Club subject to review and approval by our
12 township engineer and township solicitor.
13 MS. PICKARD: Second the motion.
14 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second on
15 the floor.
16 Questions from the board?
17 Questions or comments from the
18 public?
19 Call the vote.
20 Jamie?
21 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
23 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
24 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
25 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
29
1 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
2 Motion carried.
3 MR. JEFFREY M. EVANS: I have the
4 signature copies for you. And once Pat and Bob
5 have an opportunity to confirm that, if you sign
6 it, then it calls for, at our expense, to have it
7 recorded. So we'll get it --
8 MS. PICKARD: Are you going to get
9 that downtown to be recorded or do you want us to
10 do that?
11 MR. JEFFREY M. EVANS: We can do
12 that. Those three copies, we can send those -- a
13 copy downtown to be recorded and a copy to them.
14 Thank you.
15 MR. KERRICK: Thank you.
16 Next on our agenda, Camp Acahela
17 conservation easement. I'm not familiar with it.
18 MS. PICKARD: Okay, this was -- some
19 of our open space money went towards the
20 conservation easement with the Natural Lands Trust.
21 This was up by the Lehigh off of Kerrick Road, that
22 boy scout camp. And we had received a letter just
23 asking us if we wanted to be co-beneficiaries of
24 the easement, which just really meant that if there
25 was any change to the easement or something
30
1 happened where the Natural Lands Trust were no
2 longer in existence, we would join the county in
3 controlling that easement. If there were any
4 changes or amendments to it, we would have a say to
5 that. And I have gotten a copy of the easement
6 this morning so that our solicitor could review it.
7 So I was recommending that we ask to be
8 co-beneficiary subject to our attorney reviewing
9 the easement.
10 MR. KERRICK: So that's your motion?
11 MS. PICKARD: And that would be my
12 motion.
13 MR. KERRICK: Motion. Do we have a
14 second?
15 MR. LAMBERTON: Second.
16 MR. KERRICK: Questions?
17 Questions from the public?
18 Jamie, any?
19 Call the vote.
20 Jamie?
21 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
23 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
24 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
25 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
31
1 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
2 Next on our agenda, Windy Corners.
3 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: My name is
4 Sarah Bue-Morris. I'm the civil engineer for the
5 project as of just last week at your work session.
6 We would like conditional approval of the plan so
7 that the applicants can proceed with the final
8 construction. Would you like me to go over the
9 plan at all?
10 MR. ARMSTRONG: Sarah, just for my
11 benefit, the latest version of the plan and the
12 number of sheets and the first date of the plan
13 just so I know, because I know it's been revised a
14 few times. I just want to make sure we have the
15 most current plan on the record.
16 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Okay, the
17 plan in front of you right now is C1 through C6.
18 The last revision is Revision D, which was revised
19 on April 9, 2008. And the modification that was
20 made was Note 23 where we took out the time and put
21 in that the following items would be completely
22 prior to obtaining certificate of occupancy.
23 Sorry, I got a cold.
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: That's all right.
25 And the original date was, I think, December 17,
32
1 2007.
2 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Yes.
3 MR. ARMSTRONG: And it's titled
4 Blakeslee Pharmacy revised L.D.P. for Windy Corners
5 Realty?
6 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Correct.
7 MR. GEFF BLAKE: For the board's --
8 this is Geff Blake, I am the attorney for Windy
9 Corners. David Murphy would like just to refresh
10 your memory and for benefit of the audience, just
11 to give you a little bit of information as to the
12 type of tenants that Mr. Murphy has already
13 acquired and intends to acquire for this property.
14 MR. DAVID MURPHY: Hi. David
15 Murphy. As you know, with this ongoing project our
16 intention has been to bring in quality and
17 convenient healthcare. Right now we currently have
18 five tenants: Physical therapy, dental,
19 herbal/medical equipment, more expanded blood lab,
20 and a podiatrist.
21 We have been intentionally holding
22 off renting approximately one-third of this
23 building so we can shop for, again, more quality as
24 opposed to just picking up the first name that
25 phones us and renting. We've already turned down a
33
1 few because it would be duplicated here in the
2 community, which I see no need for.
3 So we're hoping as long as it's
4 fiscally possible and this project doesn't go
5 beyond our means, we are going to keep this part
6 empty so we can shop for quality. Hopefully
7 specialists or maybe some sort of imaging or
8 whichever, but we are going to hold off a
9 considerable time frame from renting it. So,
10 again, just hoping for quality. Unless, of course,
11 our finances change where we have to submit and do
12 that, less than admired -- or less than needed
13 medical people.
14 So that's it in a nutshell.
15 MR. GEFF BLAKE: And that brings up
16 a point that I wanted to clarify, and I've spoken
17 to your solicitor on Friday about this. Based on
18 the work session comments, we fully intend to post
19 the letter of credit. I agree with the one
20 supervisor that it's probably not required for us
21 to do so, but we do want to show our good faith to
22 the township, post the letter of credit for the
23 remaining improvements.
24 Our only caveat is, based on these
25 third-party contractors and based on weather
34
1 conditions, a lot of these are exterior
2 improvements. I don't want to foreclose or somehow
3 mislead the board. We may, if our third-party
4 contractors tell us it's advisable, come back at a
5 later time and ask for an occupancy permit, when we
6 may have a couple of items left to do based on,
7 again, weather conditions, conditions that are
8 basically outside of our control. We have to rely
9 on our third-party vendors who use their experience
10 to tell us hey, it may be best if we wait a couple
11 of weeks before we do this.
12 And as Mr. Murphy just explained, we
13 do have some very nice reputable tenants lined up
14 ready to come in and we are trying to push this
15 forward, and we do very much appreciate you putting
16 us on the agenda for today.
17 And I guess I'm -- one comment that
18 I'd like to address with the board, get your
19 guidance on; your solicitor and I have gone back
20 and forth on this issue. During the course of this
21 project, at one point Blakeslee Pharmacy intended
22 to put in a drive-thru pharmacy. That concept has
23 been abandoned, but during that discussion there
24 was an issue about the use of Maple Road which is a
25 private road.
35
1 The planning commission, when it
2 approved this, put some restriction -- we have a --
3 let me back up. We do have a recorded easement
4 with respect to Maple Road. The planning
5 commission has added some restrictions that say
6 well, we want you to use Maple Road only for
7 secondary emergency use.
8 I guess my comments on that are,
9 one, we can't control how the public uses it. We
10 already have a recorded easement. The easement
11 that we have complies with your land ordinance. It
12 indicates who owns it, it indicates who has
13 responsibility for maintenance. I don't
14 understand, and I've gone in a circle with your
15 solicitor on this, why that restriction has to be
16 in there.
17 We understand we need a highway
18 occupancy permit from PennDOT. We're not -- we
19 understand that, we fully intend to work with
20 PennDOT and do what is necessary to obtain that.
21 So I'm just asking the board, I guess, for some
22 guidance as to, do we really need that as part of
23 our land development plan.
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. I mean, we
25 had -- correct me if I'm wrong, Geff, but we had
36
1 agreed on the language of the easement. It's
2 already been planned out for the grantor of the
3 easement. I guess you haven't received it back
4 yet, but my understanding is before my time in
5 2005, one of the conditions of this particular plan
6 was to receive an easement right for that Maple
7 Road.
8 And like you said, apparently the
9 prior planning included a drive-thru pharmacy.
10 When the applicant came back before the planning
11 commission, it was disclosed that the easement was
12 never recorded. We brought that up and since,
13 between that meeting and the next meeting, an
14 easement was recorded without review of the
15 township and myself.
16 That being said, there's also -- I
17 mean, SALDO does require a statement as to
18 ownership and maintenance of any accessway being
19 proposed on a plan. With this particular plan,
20 it's being shown -- I believe there is a note --
21 correct me if I'm wrong, Sarah, there is a note on
22 the plan indicating that that second accessway
23 should be used for -- or shall be used for second
24 emergency access off Maple Road.
25 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: I don't
37
1 think so. Private road -- oh, yes, there is. The
2 private road known as Maple Road shall only be used
3 as secondary emergency access to the landowner's
4 property.
5 MR. ARMSTRONG: Right. So there's a
6 statement on the plan. It makes sense to keep it
7 consistent with the easement, that it's only going
8 to be used, if needed, as a secondary emergency
9 access; because their primary access is going to
10 have to receive the applicable, you know, PennDOT
11 HOP from 940.
12 So there's a combination of reasons
13 as to why I particularly feel the easement is
14 needed in this particular case. And I don't think
15 it's a matter of -- I think it's a matter of the
16 applicant getting it executed, but --
17 MR. GEFF BLAKE: But I guess that's
18 my point, though, is that we do have a recorded
19 easement. We do have a recorded easement that
20 indicates the ownership and it indicates who has
21 responsibility for maintenance. This caveat or
22 this twist to it that has the secondary emergency
23 access isn't contemplated by your ordinance.
24 And frankly, I don't understand its
25 need in light of the fact that we're going to
38
1 obtain a highway occupancy permit -- cross your
2 fingers -- from PennDOT through access from 940.
3 So, again, we just keep going around
4 in a circle with your solicitor.
5 MR. KERRICK: Could I ask you a
6 question?
7 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes.
8 MR. KERRICK: You said HOP with
9 PennDOT, are you talking about your entrance or
10 Maple Road?
11 MR. GEFF BLAKE: The entrance.
12 MR. KERRICK: The entrance. So
13 Maple Road will not have a P.A. occupancy permit?
14 It does not have one now so you're not proposing
15 one?
16 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Correct.
17 MR. KERRICK: So how could you use
18 it?
19 MR. GEFF BLAKE: We have a recorded
20 easement to allow us to use it.
21 MR. KEENER: I think PennDOT will
22 take a look at that. The other thing I'm seeing is
23 it's only a 12-foot-wide travelway. I mean, how
24 are you going to have two-way traffic on a
25 12-foot-wide travelway going up on Maple Road?
39
1 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Again, we fully
2 intended to use our direct access on 940 getting
3 the occupancy permit from PennDOT. We don't --
4 Maple Road, frankly, was an issue back when we were
5 planning to have the drive-thru pharmacy. In our
6 minds, it's not an issue now.
7 MR. KEENER: I think it's an issue
8 either way because you're suggesting that two-way
9 traffic on Maple Road is acceptable, but it's only
10 a 12-foot-wide travelway. I think it's still an
11 issue whether it's a drive-thru or not. Just in
12 general design and access I think we have a problem
13 with two-way traffic on a 12-foot travelway,
14 especially when you're adding commercial traffic to
15 it.
16 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Okay. So --
17 MR. KEENER: And I don't know if
18 PennDOT's gonna have that same issue but --
19 MR. KERRICK: Why don't you put a
20 gate there for emergency access only and utilize
21 your P.A. highway occupancy -- your main entrance
22 here and then use that for a second access and the
23 issue is not there? You say you don't want to use
24 it anyway, so let's get rid of that street.
25 MR. KEENER: I think they are gonna
40
1 use it because there's a Dumpster sitting right
2 next to the building, and they aren't gonna come
3 back around.
4 MR. KERRICK: When this whole
5 project started, it wasn't only the driveway, it
6 was a question of who is going to maintain it.
7 That's what we asked Mr. Murphy at the time: Who
8 was going to do the maintenance on it?
9 MR. GEFF BLAKE: But at that time --
10 MR. KERRICK: I don't know how you
11 could use it without -- I know PennDOT will take a
12 look at it as far as the permitting of it, but I
13 would just close it off and utilize this.
14 MR. LAMBERTON: Question. Aren't
15 there homes connected to Maple?
16 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes.
17 MR. LAMBERTON: If you close it
18 off --
19 MR. GEFF BLAKE: No, he's talking
20 about closing off --
21 MR. KERRICK: The parking lot from
22 their access so they don't use it.
23 MR. LAMBERTON: Oh, your access to
24 Maple. I didn't understand.
25 MR. GEFF BLAKE: I mean, I think
41
1 we're -- I mean, we're willing to live with the
2 easement that we negotiated with your solicitor.
3 It's just getting it back in the form necessary
4 from the grantor. But, you know, it just seemed to
5 me that we were going back and forth on that issue.
6 I understand -- now that you're articulating these
7 concerns, I understand where you're coming from.
8 MR. ARMSTRONG: Would the applicant
9 be willing to -- is it the board's, you know,
10 suggestion that somehow there would be like a gate
11 to block the access in the event -- that could be
12 moved in the event of emergency?
13 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: I would
14 prefer that that not be done. And the only reason
15 being is, that the pharmacy, as far as I know, is
16 still going to move here in the corner. And even
17 if it doesn't, there are a lot of elderly that use
18 it.
19 I'd like the elderly to be able to
20 come out here rather than -- if there's no parking
21 space up here, okay, the elderly may come back
22 through here and then come back in and then take
23 another parking space. If we fence this off, then
24 the elderly is going to back up if there's no
25 parking space.
42
1 MR. KERRICK: Well, then the elderly
2 are gonna come out a nonpermitted access to 940 and
3 have an accident; and we permitted the plan, so
4 we're going to be in the same lawsuit with you.
5 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: It's a
6 private road.
7 MR. KEENER: It's not permitted.
8 MR. KERRICK: If it's not permitted
9 to be there, how could you use it?
10 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: They've
11 been using it for 30 years, 40 years.
12 MR. KERRICK: We can't change that.
13 This is a new plan today. If we approve it, then
14 there are some issues. Now, I think the township's
15 been very fair here all the way through this, and
16 this goes back to 2001. And if you're going to use
17 that road, then you need to permit it and we do it
18 the same as the other one. That's the way I look
19 at it. I don't know how the rest of the board
20 feels. Or gate it off, forget about it, and go on
21 with your plan.
22 MS. PICKARD: If you gate it off, do
23 we need the access, the easement for the Maple
24 Road?
25 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: I probably
43
1 have --
2 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Just to clarify,
3 all the ordinance requires is the statement of
4 responsibility for use. Ownership, maintenance,
5 and improvements of any common driveways or private
6 road shall be noted on the plan to be recorded.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: I think this is a
8 separate issue. This is -- if you're going to be
9 using this for a commercial property from a state
10 highway, other than, you know, an emergency
11 accessway, you're going to need an HOP permit. I
12 think that's the issue of the board at this point.
13 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Then we'll use the
14 easement that says it's only an emergency access.
15 MR. ARMSTRONG: It sounds like the
16 board would be a little bit more comfortable if you
17 were willing to put a gate to reinstate the fact
18 that it's going to be a secondary emergency
19 accessway. I mean, I don't know that --
20 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: I just
21 don't think that's a real good idea from the -- the
22 circulation within the parking lot. I'm telling
23 you that the little old ladies won't come into the
24 loading area; they'll just start backing up into
25 the driveway and you're gonna have accidents in the
44
1 parking lot because of the layout of the parking
2 lot. It's not a good idea.
3 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Doesn't it also --
4 MR. KERRICK: Excuse me, sir.
5 Let me ask you a question, Sarah.
6 I'm definitely in favor of this project, I think
7 it's needed. Now, we allow this to go through, the
8 little old lady comes out this road, comes out to
9 940 on a nonpermitted access and has an accident,
10 aren't we going to be in court, as well as you
11 people? Do you understand what our point is?
12 We're trying to cover our tail here.
13 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Right.
14 And I don't want you not to, but I don't think
15 there will be any more liability than any of the
16 other roads that are along here that are private
17 roads, none of which have an HOP.
18 MR. KERRICK: I don't know which
19 ones are and which ones aren't. I can't speak to
20 those. This is a new project.
21 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Right.
22 But it literally -- you know, the number of people
23 that will go out here are minimal.
24 MR. GEFF BLAKE: And doesn't it
25 also --
45
1 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: We did the
2 traffic count for three days and the number of left
3 turns coming in here during the peak afternoon hour
4 is seven.
5 MR. KEENER: That's prior to your
6 occupancy of the building.
7 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: That's
8 correct.
9 MR. KEENER: And how many did you
10 project after development?
11 MR. DAVID MURPHY: But most of these
12 businesses --
13 MR. KEENER: There's a way to
14 project the numbers.
15 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Right,
16 yes.
17 MR. KEENER: How many did you
18 project of left turns?
19 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: I haven't
20 finished that yet. But right now --
21 MR. DAVID MURPHY: Just so you
22 understand, most of the businesses shut down
23 between four and five. So they don't fill in
24 significantly --
25 MR. KEENER: Four to five is
46
1 probably when the peak traffic is going to be on
2 940. That's the concern that we need to know. And
3 there's a way to calculate the number of left turns
4 that are projected based on the square footage or
5 the type of use that's going to be in that
6 building. And we can't --
7 MR. DAVID MURPHY: But the highest
8 volume of business exists there right now. The
9 pharmacy and family physicians are going to be the
10 high volume turnover vehicles.
11 MR. KEENER: But you don't know
12 what's gonna be in that other building that you
13 said --
14 MR. DAVID MURPHY: We're
15 intentionally holding on.
16 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: For a
17 third of it. The rest of it he does know.
18 MR. GEFF BLAKE: If you're concerned
19 about emergencies --
20 MR. KEENER: I'm concerned about a
21 12-foot-wide travel lane with cars going
22 side-by-side. The little old lady that's trying to
23 get out here and the other little old lady that's
24 trying to come in, where are they going to go?
25 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Well, hopefully
47
1 they're using our main entrance.
2 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: The whole
3 road --
4 MR. KEENER: But if you're saying
5 you don't want to do emergency access, then they're
6 going to use it however they want to use it.
7 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Okay, the
8 12-foot-wide was picked up by the surveyor that
9 way. The whole road's graded. The road is wider.
10 MR. KEENER: The plan should be
11 changed to reflect that.
12 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: The road
13 is wider. I don't know why the surveyor picked up
14 12 feet of it. It's hard, it's all dirt almost all
15 of the way. And it's not -- the side of the road
16 has not been seeded yet because of the drought last
17 year and everything, but the road is wider than
18 12 feet.
19 MR. KEENER: Why not improve it to
20 22 feet like the rest of the aisles back to that
21 point?
22 MR. DAVID MURPHY: I don't see an
23 issue. We are not giving guidance. I'm not
24 directing people in on that road, I'm not directing
25 people out on that road. I will say if emergency
48
1 vehicles are needed there, I don't like the idea of
2 a gate.
3 MR. KEENER: It's not about
4 emergency vehicles, it's about daily traffic.
5 They're gonna circulate. They're gonna come in
6 here and go out there. When they get back into the
7 back --
8 MR. DAVID MURPHY: No one does
9 today. I don't see it.
10 MR. GEFF BLAKE: And don't forget,
11 we will have signage directing people into the main
12 entrance.
13 MR. KERRICK: Your flow comes in,
14 comes around, comes around -- this is parked cars,
15 correct?
16 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Yes.
17 MR. KERRICK: And you're directing
18 them right out onto that road?
19 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: No, no,
20 no.
21 MR. KERRICK: Where do they go from
22 here?
23 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: We -- they
24 park and they come back out that way.
25 MR. KEENER: They aren't gonna come
49
1 out.
2 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: The only
3 time anybody would come out would literally be if
4 they wanted to park like right here and there's no
5 parking at all. Then rather than back up, they
6 will probably come out and then come back in and
7 park back up here.
8 MS. PICKARD: Why is this isle here?
9 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Because
10 you can't -- it's a corner, you can't get to it.
11 MR. KEENER: How are you going to
12 get a garbage truck in to access that Dumpster?
13 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Assuming
14 that the garbage truck will come first thing in the
15 morning, they literally would come in here -- come
16 here and then pull in; or they'll just pull right
17 up here and pull the Dumpster out.
18 MR. KEENER: It says there's a car
19 here, a car here, and a car here.
20 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Then
21 they'll pull the Dumpster out.
22 MR. KEENER: I don't think anybody's
23 gonna be pulling the Dumpster out into the aisle.
24 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: I've seen
25 people pick up garbage in a lot less space than
50
1 this.
2 MR. KERRICK: When you came in last
3 week and we discussed this matter, this road was
4 not the issue. You didn't mention that to us last
5 week.
6 MR. GEFF BLAKE: We did mention it.
7 MR. KERRICK: You talked about it
8 briefly and --
9 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Well, we're willing
10 to live with the easement we negotiated. We just
11 need to make sure to get it back from the grantor
12 in recordable form, and we can use signage to make
13 sure that people use them.
14 MR. KERRICK: You feel safe with
15 that?
16 You can go off the record.
17 (Discussion off the record.)
18 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: They can
19 have the garbage truck come in before they open
20 during the day. They don't open until almost nine
21 o'clock.
22 MS. PICKARD: Was the left-hand turn
23 analysis submitted to PennDOT or no?
24 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: No. It's
25 not been finalized yet.
51
1 MS. PICKARD: When did you expect to
2 have that submitted?
3 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Within the
4 next couple of days.
5 MR. ARMSTRONG: It sounds like
6 you're still -- you're agreeable that the easement
7 is going to be --
8 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yeah, we're fine
9 with that.
10 MR. ARMSTRONG: And the issue of a
11 fence, a temporary move-away fence, you have a
12 problem with that?
13 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yeah. We have a
14 problem with it from an emergency perspective. God
15 forbid anything occurs, a fire, a need for an
16 ambulance, having someone take the structure out, a
17 fence, gate, something like that, that would delay
18 emergency responders. That's not in our best
19 interest.
20 And, again, I'm coming back to your
21 own ordinance. You appear to be grafting on
22 something that's not required by your ordinance,
23 and I just make that comment.
24 MR. KEENER: I think life, safety,
25 and welfare is part of our ordinance. And I don't
52
1 think having a permitted access point with this
2 development is in the best interest of the
3 community. I mean, you have improvements out there
4 currently, correct? What's the purpose of this
5 conditional approval at this point without getting
6 the HOP? Because you can't occupy the building
7 without having the HOP anyway.
8 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Because
9 if -- he was told when he came in and notified the
10 township that he was going to start construction on
11 the rest of the amenities, the stormwater, spouts,
12 planting trees, that sort of thing. The township
13 people, workers, told him that because it's not
14 conditionally approved he's doing the construction
15 at his own risk. And if you decide to change
16 anything on the plan that affects then what he's
17 done, he has to rip it out at his own cost and fix
18 it.
19 MR. KEENER: Well, that's what
20 happened on the last approval, correct?
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: The rules were
22 reversed.
23 Right?
24 MR. KERRICK: The rules were
25 reversed, yes.
53
1 MR. KEENER: What's that?
2 MR. KERRICK: They did things that
3 were not on the plans, not in our township, and
4 that's why we're here today.
5 MS. PICKARD: I think that was the
6 concern of the township and --
7 MR. KEENER: See, you make changes
8 that you risk inconsistent with the approved plans.
9 They were at your risk, correct?
10 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Correct.
11 MR. KEENER: So we could make you go
12 back and change everything back to the original
13 approved plans. We could just say, we don't want
14 this. We could go back to the original approval
15 and say, do it according to your approved plan.
16 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Yes.
17 MR. KERRICK: As I stated before, I
18 was in support of the project, the only thing I
19 have an issue with is that, which I'm sure PennDOT
20 is going to be making.
21 MR. KEENER: I mean, I'm the same
22 way. I have no problem with the project, but the
23 concern I have is with the access and a
24 12-foot-wide access drive that you know is gonna be
25 used on a regular basis.
54
1 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: It's not
2 gonna be used on a regular basis. Most of the
3 people are not gonna go out onto a dirt road when
4 they can stay on a paved surface.
5 MS. PICKARD: You just said that
6 they were a few minutes ago.
7 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: They will
8 on the days that for whatever reason, okay, all the
9 parking spaces up here are taken. Rather than back
10 out -- and especially if somebody's illegally
11 parked in the loading area, because right now they
12 could pull in and turn around and drive back out.
13 But if everything's parked up in
14 this area and all the parking spaces are taken,
15 including the loading area, okay, then somebody's
16 gonna back up in front of the entrance and have to
17 back around here all the way up here, to be able to
18 drive out or find another parking place.
19 Do you really want that liability?
20 I don't, even if it only happens once a year or
21 once every three years. But you know that
22 eventually somebody's gonna illegally park in that
23 loading area. It may only be once every 20 years,
24 but it's a possibility and it's a possibility that
25 it would be a disaster.
55
1 MR. KERRICK: I'd take that risk
2 over this risk any day. And I came here with no
3 problems with this plan and ready to approve it,
4 but this wrinkle changed my mind. I'd like to get
5 off this.
6 Is there anything else with the plan
7 that we need to look at, to discuss, and then we'll
8 go back to that issue? Because I have a real
9 problem with that.
10 MS. PICKARD: I have another
11 question, though. Now you're saying that when we
12 talked last week that we were going to have all the
13 increments done, now you're saying (inaudible).
14 And my concern then is, if we're going back to
15 outside dates, because I don't want to just leave
16 this hanging out forever. Before we had the June
17 date, and then we're on course in August. I mean,
18 are we going to go back to putting some dates in
19 here?
20 MS. SARAH J. BUE MORRIS: Yes.
21 MR. GEFF BLAKE: We fully intend to
22 do everything before we come to you for a
23 certificate of occupancy. And looking at the punch
24 list of items, I will call it, in talking to
25 outside vendors, whose opinion we have to rely on
56
1 because they're the professionals, and looking at
2 the long-term weather forecast, I didn't want there
3 to be any misunderstanding.
4 I didn't want you to somehow feel
5 that we were misleading you if a month from now we
6 come back to you and say, look, we have nine out of
7 ten things done but for this very good reason we
8 don't have No. 10 done, can you give us a
9 certificate of occupancy. I was just, out of an
10 abundance of caution, raising that with you just so
11 that there wasn't a misunderstanding that we were
12 somehow foreclosing that possibility.
13 But we fully intend to get
14 everything done and to come the next time before
15 you with a completed certificate of occupancy
16 request.
17 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: In
18 addition, we did modify the construction sequence
19 on HC6. It now anticipates the completion date is
20 May 2008.
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: For all the
22 improvements on the plan?
23 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Yes.
24 MS. PICKARD: So you will be back.
25 It will come back if they need an extension on
57
1 that?
2 MR. ARMSTRONG: Well, they're not
3 asking --
4 Excuse me, you're not asking for a C
5 of O today?
6 MR. GEFF BLAKE: No, no, absolutely
7 not.
8 MR. ARMSTRONG: You're not asking
9 for a C of O prior to the improvements, because
10 there's a note on the plan stating that all the
11 improvements are going to be completed before C of
12 O.
13 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes, correct. And,
14 again, maybe I'm kicking myself now. The only
15 reason I brought it up was I didn't want you to
16 look at me if I had to come back before you and say
17 well, wait a minute, why are you here?
18 I'm just raising it because since we
19 were here last time, last week, we have talked to
20 outside vendors and we have been looking at the
21 punch list and we have been concerned about the
22 weather. That's all.
23 MR. KEENER: Do you have the zoning
24 too? Let me take a quick look at that.
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: And we do have a
58
1 review letter from the township engineer dated
2 April 12, 2008. Did you receive a copy of that?
3 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: No, I did
4 not.
5 MR. ARMSTRONG: It says review
6 letter, reviewing your latest plan that was
7 received on April 9th of 2008.
8 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: I can get
9 a copy from the township.
10 MR. ARMSTRONG: Well, just look
11 through it. I'm anticipating there are -- it looks
12 like there is possibly an issue. I know you were
13 looking for action today from the board of
14 supervisors. It looks like there may be a
15 possibility they're not comfortable taking action
16 today.
17 In any event that they do want to
18 table it, possibly a special meeting prior to next
19 month or if you would be agreeable to an extension
20 meeting just until a work session in May, to take
21 some kind of action on this plan.
22 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: The other
23 thing you should probably consider is that this
24 plan has been in front of you since Pasonick's plan
25 which was down in 1990-something.
59
1 MR. DAVID MURPHY: '98.
2 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: And the
3 plan itself has always, always had this driveway.
4 MR. KERRICK: We're going to take a
5 short recess and we're going to get the old plans
6 out and look at those quick. So give us five
7 minutes.
8 Is that all right with you, Jamie?
9 MR. KEENER: All right.
10 (Meeting recessed at 11:52 a.m. and
11 resumed at 12:05 p.m.)
12 MR. ARMSTRONG: Have you had a
13 chance to review the latest township engineer's
14 review letter dated April 12 of '08?
15 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Yes.
16 MR. ARMSTRONG: And are you
17 agreeable with all the terms and conditions and
18 comments in that review letter?
19 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Yes.
20 MR. ARMSTRONG: And I think you've
21 also indicated that you are going to be providing
22 the requisite letter of credit for the financial
23 security to be on the project.
24 MR. DAVID MURPHY: Yes.
25 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes.
60
1 MR. ARMSTRONG: You're also going to
2 be entering into a development agreement with the
3 township for the particular development, subject to
4 revisions consistent with the township's action
5 today, if there is one? And you and our --
6 MR. GEFF BLAKE: And our discussions
7 that we had on Friday.
8 MR. ARMSTRONG: Right.
9 MR. GEFF BLAKE: I mean, we still
10 need to see the language.
11 MR. ARMSTRONG: And also with
12 respect to the stormwater, PennDOT had mentioned
13 some concerns about the stormwater plans. You will
14 be providing the township with proof that PennDOT
15 is okay with the existing stormwater plan with the
16 facilities, or in the event that they require a
17 revision to the stormwater plan, that that's going
18 to be subject to the township's approval, if the
19 stormwater plan has to change with respect to
20 PennDOT's comments, that the township would be able
21 to review and would be subject to township's
22 approval?
23 MR. GEFF BLAKE: That is correct.
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: And you're also
25 agreeable that you will not be looking for a
61
1 certificate -- or you will not be receiving a C of
2 O, certificate of occupancy, until all the
3 improvements are done with respect to this action,
4 this motion tonight, as indicated on the note on
5 the plan?
6 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Correct.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: That no C of O will
8 be issued until all the improvements have been
9 completed. And you will be providing an executed
10 easement for that private road?
11 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes.
12 MR. ARMSTRONG: The easement that
13 you and I had discussed which provides it as a
14 secondary emergency access, as well as other
15 provisions that were in the draft that we came up
16 with?
17 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes.
18 MR. ARMSTRONG: And that will be
19 included prior to plan recordation?
20 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes.
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: Are there any other
22 comments from the board of supervisors at this
23 time?
24 Any public comment on this plan?
25 And you have stated that you will be
62
1 agreeable and you are agreeable to putting up the
2 appropriate signage as an emergency accessway or do
3 not enter/do not exit signs at that access to the
4 private road?
5 MR. GEFF BLAKE: That is correct.
6 MR. ARMSTRONG: And in the event
7 that PennDOT would require an additional HOP permit
8 for use of that private road, that you would
9 provide the township with copies of any HOPs
10 pursuant to the private road, not the primary
11 access? In the event that PennDOT would require an
12 HOP for the Maple Road onto 940 you would provide
13 the township and complete any improvements related
14 to that HOP?
15 MR. DAVID MURPHY: Mm-hmm.
16 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes.
17 MR. KERRICK: Anything else?
18 MR. ARMSTRONG: Is the board ready
19 to consider a motion for this particular plan?
20 MR. KEENER: I'll make a motion we
21 approve the revised land development plan for Windy
22 Corners Realty.
23 MR. ARMSTRONG: I'll go through
24 some, just for clarification purposes for the
25 record, so everyone knows what the conditions are:
63
1 The name of the plan, the date of the plan, I'll go
2 through that just for your benefit, if you'd like.
3 MR. KEENER: That's fine.
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: Okay. The motion
5 before the board would be to conditionally approve
6 the land development identified as lands of Windy
7 Corners Project No. 2007-028; said plan being
8 identified as Blakeslee Pharmacy Revised, L.D.P.
9 for Windy Corners Realty, dated December 17, 2007,
10 last revised April 9, 2008, consisting of six
11 sheets subject to the following conditions:
12 The applicant shall comply with the
13 comments and requirements set forth in the township
14 engineer's review letter dated April 12, 2008; that
15 the applicant shall post the requisite financial
16 security for all improvements as shown on the plan
17 in an amount to be determined by the township
18 engineer prior to plan recordation.
19 The applicant shall complete any and
20 all improvements as shown on the plan including but
21 not limited to landscaping, paving, stormwater
22 management, bollards, E&S measures and signage
23 prior to the issuance of any certificate of
24 occupancy.
25 The applicant shall receive the
64
1 requisite highway occupancy permit from PennDOT for
2 direct access onto Route 940, and shall provide a
3 copy of the permit prior to plan recordation and
4 prior to the issuance of a certificate of
5 occupancy.
6 The applicant shall provide proof of
7 financial security and agreement with PennDOT for
8 any PennDOT improvements or in relation to that
9 HOP, or in the alternative shall provide the
10 township with the requisite financial security for
11 same.
12 The applicant shall install
13 appropriate signage stating emergency access only
14 and do not enter and do not exit signs at the
15 access to the private road known as Maple Road; and
16 that if PennDOT requires any improvements or an HOP
17 with respect to Maple Road onto 940, that the
18 applicant appropriately satisfy any and all PennDOT
19 requirements with relation to same.
20 The applicant shall not use Maple
21 Road as a primary ingress or egress. And the
22 applicant shall only use Maple Road as a secondary
23 emergency access. And the applicant shall provide
24 a note on the plan stating the same in a form
25 acceptable to the township, which already has been
65
1 done.
2 The applicant shall execute a
3 development and financial security agreement in a
4 form acceptable to the township. The applicant
5 shall execute the applicable stormwater maintenance
6 agreement in accordance with the stormwater
7 management ordinance.
8 The applicant shall provide the
9 township with a confirmation from PennDOT that
10 PennDOT will not require a revision to the
11 applicant's stormwater management plan prior to
12 plan recordation. And if PennDOT does require a
13 revision to the stormwater management plan, this
14 conditional approval is subject to the township's
15 approval of any revised stormwater management plan
16 prior to plan recordation.
17 The applicant shall provide an
18 executed easement for the right to use Maple Road
19 in a form acceptable to the township. The
20 applicant shall provide fencing or a boulder
21 barrier around the entire stormwater basin.
22 Has that already been indicated on
23 the plan?
24 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Yeah.
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: And the applicant
66
1 shall also satisfy all outstanding township
2 professional services billed in relation to this
3 plan, pursuant to the professional services
4 agreement with the applicant.
5 And there will be a separate motion
6 for -- I believe the applicant's requesting three
7 waivers from SALDO, but this will be the
8 conditional approval motion if the board chooses to
9 act on this plan today.
10 MR. KERRICK: Make a motion.
11 Jamie?
12 MR. KEENER: Do we need to do the
13 waivers first?
14 MR. ARMSTRONG: We can do it all in
15 one motion if you prefer.
16 MR. KEENER: Yeah. Add the waivers
17 in, if you would.
18 MR. ARMSTRONG: And in addition to
19 that motion, the waivers would be for the applicant
20 SALDO Section 135-15(A)15; SALDO Section 135-17(L);
21 and SALDO Section 135-17(M).
22 MR. KEENER: So moved.
23 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the floor.
24 Do we have a second?
25 MR. LAMBERTON: Second.
67
1 MR. KERRICK: Questions from the
2 board?
3 Questions from the public on the
4 motion?
5 Questions from the applicant on the
6 motion?
7 Call the vote.
8 Jamie?
9 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
10 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
11 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
12 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
13 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
14 MR. KERRICK: And I'll vote in
15 favor. Motion carried.
16 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Thank you.
17 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Thank you.
18 MR. ARMSTRONG: Applicant
19 understands all the conditions?
20 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Mm-hmm.
21 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes, absolutely.
22 MR. DAVID MURPHY: Yes.
23 MR. ARMSTRONG: Applicant is
24 agreeable to all the conditions?
25 MR. GEFF BLAKE: Yes.
68
1 MS. SARAH J. BUE-MORRIS: Yes.
2 MR. ARMSTRONG: Thank you.
3 MR. KERRICK: Before we open it up
4 to questions and answers from the Grade 4, does
5 anyone from the public have anything they'd like to
6 bring before the board?
7 Does the board have anything to
8 discuss?
9 Could I have a motion that we could
10 adjourn the meeting?
11 MR. LAMBERTON: So moved.
12 MS. PICKARD: Second.
13 MR. KERRICK: We're adjourned.
14 (Meeting concluded at 12:15 p.m.)
15 ---
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7 I hereby certify that the
8 proceedings and evidence are contained fully and
9 accurately, to the best of my ability, in the notes
10 taken by me at the meeting in the above matter; and
11 that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript
12 of the same.
13
14
15 ______________________
16 EVILYS E. BRATHWAITE
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