Before
THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
---
In Re: Special Meeting
---
Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
State Avenue
Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
Wednesday, May 26, 2010, beginning at 8:06 a.m.
---
PRESENT: JOHN E. KERRICK, Chairperson
HEIDI A. PICKARD, Vice-Chairperson
DONALD MOYER, Board Member
ANNE LAMBERTON, Board Member
JAMIE B. KEENER, Board Member
PATRICK M. ARMSTRONG, ESQ., Solicitor
ALSO PRESENT: ROBERT McHALE, Township Engineer
PHYLLIS HAASE, Zoning Officer
---
__________________________________________________________
PANKO REPORTING
537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
(570) 421-3620
2
1 MR. KERRICK: Can we call the meeting
2 to order -- special meeting to order with the Pledge of
3 Allegiance, please?
4 (Pledge of Allegiance was recited.).
5 MR. KERRICK: First item under new
6 business, public hearing, Ordinance 487.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: This is an ordinance
8 to authorize the township to enter into an intermunicipal
9 agreement. That intermunicipal agreement is the Keystone
10 Municipal Trust, which is a trust that provides for
11 workers' compensation and other employment related
12 insurance coverage for local municipalities. It's a trust
13 that municipalities across the state have entered into, in
14 an effort to decrease the cost of workers' compensation
15 insurance for townships. And what this ordinance does is,
16 it is -- it authorizes you to enter into the trust
17 agreement.
18 This ordinance has been advertised in
19 the Pocono Record for a public hearing this morning. It
20 was advertised in the May Twenty -- I'm sorry, the May 19,
21 2010 edition of the Pocono Record for a public hearing.
22 It's been provided at that newspaper for public
23 availability, it's been posted at the township office and
24 it's also been provided and filed with the Monroe County
25 Law Library.
3
1 With that, this is a public hearing.
2 I'll open the public hearing with a brief description of
3 the ordinance. As I indicated before it authorizes the
4 township to enter into the Keystone Municipal Trust, which
5 is, again, a trust that provides workers' compensation
6 insurance for the township.
7 What the board should be aware of is
8 that you will be entering into this agreement, this trust
9 agreement, for a period of not less than two years; and if
10 you were to terminate the agreement before or after that
11 period, you'd be subject to the termination fee.
12 There are some other comments with
13 respect to the trust agreement, but at this time, you
14 know, your annual contributions, the initial
15 contributions, assessments, the termination provision, as
16 I indicated before, but the most important one i s that
17 you will be committing to this for at least a two year
18 period.
19 So with that, it is a public hearing.
20 If there is any comments from the board, now would be a
21 good time.
22 Seeing none, if there's any comments
23 from the public, open it up for public comment. Seeing
24 none.
25 MR. KEENER: I make a motion we close
4
1 the hearing.
2 MS. PICKARD: I second the motion.
3 MR. ARMSTRONG: Now, the -- there's
4 been a motion to close the hearing.
5 MR. MOYER: I'll second.
6 MR. KERRICK: You want me to do it
7 or -- motion and second.
8 Questions or comments?
9 Questions or comments from the public
10 on the motion?
11 Call the vote. Jamie?
12 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
13 MR. KERRICK: Anne?
14 MS. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
15 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
16 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
17 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
18 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
20 Motion carried.
21 Next, Pat?
22 MR. ARMSTRONG: Now, the board would
23 entertain -- that was just to close the hearing. If
24 there's a motion to approve the ordinance --
25 MR. KEENER: I make a motion we adopt
5
1 Ordinance No. 487, Keystone Municipal Insurance Trust.
2 MS. PICKARD: I second the motion.
3 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
4 Questions or comments from the board?
5 Questions or comments from the public
6 on the motion?
7 Call the vote. Jamie?
8 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
9 MR. KERRICK: Anne?
10 MS. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
11 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
12 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
13 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
14 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
15 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
16 Motion carried.
17 MR. ARMSTRONG: The next thing on the
18 agenda is the actual Keystone Municipal Trust Agreement.
19 As I indicated it's the agreement that the township's
20 going to be entering into the trust. If there's a motion
21 that the board wants to entertain approving that
22 agreement.
23 MR. KEENER: I make a motion we adopt
24 Resolution No. 2010 dash 015, the Keystone Municipal
25 Trust -- Insurance Trust.
6
1 MS. PICKARD: I'll second the motion.
2 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second on the
3 floor.
4 Questions or comments from the board?
5 Questions or comments from the public
6 on the motion?
7 Call the vote. Jamie?
8 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
9 MR. KERRICK: Anne?
10 MS. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
11 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
12 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
13 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
14 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
15 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
16 Motion carried.
17 You want to continue, Pat, or me?
18 MR. ARMSTRONG: I can if you want to.
19 I mean, the next two things on the agenda are actually
20 related to the Keystone Municipal Trust. They're two
21 resolutions that the trust requires of the municipalities
22 to adopt.
23 MR. KERRICK: We just did 1-5, this
24 one.
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: You just did the
7
1 resolution?
2 MR. MOYER: Oh, there's another one
3 too.
4 MR. KEENER: Yeah, we did 1-5. We
5 need to do 0-6.
6 MR. MOYER: 1-6.
7 MR. KEENER: 1-6.
8 MR. ARMSTRONG: 1-6 is a resolution --
9 it indicates under the agenda, it implements the hepatitis
10 C preemployment testing program.
11 MR. KERRICK: Do I have a motion?
12 MR. KEENER: Motion to approve
13 Resolution 2010 dash 016.
14 MS. PICKARD: Second.
15 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
16 Questions or comments from the board?
17 Questions of comments from the public?
18 Call the vote. Jamie?
19 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
20 MR. KERRICK: Anne?
21 MS. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
23 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
24 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
25 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
8
1 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
2 Motion carried.
3 Anything else, Pat?
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: That's all I have.
5 MR. KERRICK: Next item on our agenda
6 is Arrowhead Lakes Community Center.
7 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Good morning.
8 MR. KERRICK: Good morning.
9 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: My name is Mike
10 Fenick with Pennoni Associates. I'm here representing
11 Arrowhead Lake for their land development for their
12 community lodge. There are some certain revisions to the
13 plans that the board had not seen last time they were
14 submitted, those revisions being the temporary sewage
15 holding tank parallel to Lake Shore Drive and also the
16 fire suppression system structure, which is the holding
17 tank and also the water lines connected to the building,
18 as well as the fire vault.
19 As time moved on these items were not
20 shown on the plans, but as the land development plans came
21 to be finalized these items had to be added to the plans,
22 along with notes pertaining to those certain items,
23 insofar from the land development perspective, addressing
24 the temporary sewage holding tank, the water storage tank
25 and also the water well at Arrowhead Lake.
9
1 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. And the board,
2 as you're aware, the applicant did receive previous
3 conditional approval. That approval letter is dated March
4 11, 2010. And I think what the applicant's indicating
5 that there's --
6 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: If you go to
7 CS-1501, that's where the drawing you're gonna see of
8 these structures. As you can see on this plan, towards --
9 parallel to Lake Shore Drive is the location of the
10 temporary sewage holding tank. There's a 10,000 gallon
11 temporary sewage holding tank that will be installed to
12 such time as the Act 537 Plan's approved and it's at such
13 time Arrowhead will be able to connect to the public
14 system.
15 Also you will see a water storage tank
16 along the fire access road, along the -- here's the
17 temporary sewage holding tank right there, and this is the
18 water storage tank that is going to support the new lodge
19 for fire suppression.
20 All these items were not on the plans
21 as the last time the board has seen them. Well, we had
22 received conditional approval. Today we are seeking final
23 approval of the plans with the board of supervisors.
24 There are many, many notes pertaining
25 to the items that I reference on the plans. The water
10
1 storage tank notes are down here. All sizing and
2 calculations will be submitted to the board and the
3 township, as well as the building code official, in such
4 time that they are finalized. The sanitary notes
5 pertaining to the temporary sewage holding tank are up
6 there.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: So the only -- the
8 only changes to the plan since that March 11, 2010
9 conditional approval are the proposed water storage tank
10 for fire suppression purposes --
11 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Correct.
12 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- which is located up
13 along the --
14 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: It's located
15 right here.
16 MR. ARMSTRONG: And the temporary
17 sewage holding tank, which is located -- and I'm assuming
18 it's underneath --
19 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: It's underneath
20 the ground. Everything is subsurface.
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: All right.
22 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: And actually,
23 too, along with the water storage tank, how this tank is
24 gonna be recharged -- you'll see a standpipe to fill these
25 tanks. This, to my knowledge, is actually going to be of
11
1 a cleanup, to flush that grade and you'll actually never
2 see the standpipe. So a water tank will just hook up to
3 the storage tank and recharge the tank. That is to -- the
4 way it's gonna be designed, but everything you see on here
5 is subsurface.
6 MS. PICKARD: I got a question --
7 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Sure.
8 MS. PICKARD: -- and a -- and a
9 comment. It was my understanding from the DEP that the
10 lines had to be permitted as well after prior --
11 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: They will be,
12 yeah. Right here, there are lines on Lake Shore Drive
13 that are currently being renewed through the Act 537 Plan
14 to get approved. The Arrowhead -- Arrowhead Lake is going
15 to have a temporary sewage holding tank that will be
16 installed and will be utilized until such time as the
17 lines are approved. Until that time they won't be able to
18 connect to the public system.
19 So the Act 537 Plan needs to be
20 approved before Arrowhead Lake will be able to connect to
21 the public system. So they will have to utilize the
22 temporary sewage holding tank.
23 MS. PICKARD: I just thought -- I just
24 thought there was two processes, that the plan would be
25 approved and then the lines would be permitted.
12
1 MR. McHALE: Correct.
2 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Correct.
3 MR. McHALE: And that's the way the
4 notes are written on the drawing --
5 MS. PICKARD: Okay.
6 MR. McHALE: -- is that both those
7 items have to be accomplished.
8 Mike, you might want to point to
9 the -- the manhole that you have.
10 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: It's right here.
11 MR. McHALE: There you go. In order
12 to put the access drive in and make the connection to
13 where the -- I guess the existing stub-out is for that --
14 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: For the line?
15 MR. McHALE: -- low pressure system
16 is --
17 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yes.
18 MR. McHALE: -- then that connection
19 is going to be made to the manhole, but the sewage
20 effluence is going to be routed to the temporary sewage
21 holding tank until such time as the planning permit is
22 obtained --
23 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Correct.
24 MR. McHALE: -- then that disconnect
25 would occur.
13
1 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Correct.
2 MS. PICKARD: And my other question
3 is, you have that in the paved area; so is that going to
4 be paving over the sewage holding tank?
5 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yes.
6 MS. PICKARD: And then are they going
7 to be removed in the --
8 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: It will have to
9 be abandoned as per requirements of the township.
10 MS. LAMBERTON: It says there's a
11 note. That's what we're just reading.
12 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yeah, it's all --
13 it's all in the notes. There's a lot of notes pertaining
14 to the temporary holding tank and such that even the --
15 the fire suppression system as well. There's a lot of
16 notes pertaining to that for the land development purpose.
17 MR. ARMSTRONG: And you're aware that
18 the temporary holding tank can only be used for a period
19 of one year or if the public sewer is available before
20 that, one of those is going to be timing for that.
21 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yes.
22 MS. LAMBERTON: What happens after the
23 year if they're not approved?
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: They're going to have
25 to either stop using it or they're going to have to come
14
1 back to the township and see if the township's agreeable
2 to a short extension until that public sewer's available.
3 MR. KEENER: You have a detail of the
4 sewer manhole in here?
5 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: There's not one
6 on the plans? It's not 6,002 or 6,001?
7 MR. KEENER: 6,001, 6,002, yeah.
8 You've got to add it because you're going to -- a
9 temporary condition, you're going to need -- it looks like
10 you're bringing the sewer line off of the manhole,
11 correct --
12 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Correct.
13 MR. KEENER: -- into the temporary
14 holding tank?
15 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Correct.
16 MR. KEENER: All right. So you're
17 going to have -- have to turn it 90 degrees --
18 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Right.
19 MR. KEENER: -- to go into the tank,
20 and the future condition is going to be going straight.
21 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Correct.
22 MR. KEENER: Do you have --
23 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: We could add 50
24 to --
25 MR. KEENER: You're not sure how
15
1 that's going to be.
2 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Any other
3 questions?
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: The applicant's aware
5 that they'll need to post additional financial securities
6 for the temporary holding tank?
7 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: That's in the
8 permit, correct, yeah.
9 MR. KEENER: This is -- wait a minute.
10 That's a low pressure line?
11 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yeah, it's a low
12 pressure line coming up to the tank. There's a grinder
13 pump at the -- at the building that's going to pump the
14 sanitary up to the temporary holding tank.
15 MR. KEENER: And what is it from the
16 manhole out? Is it gravity from the manhole out?
17 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: No, it'll still
18 be pressure --
19 MR. McHALE: No, it's pressure also.
20 Inside the manhole they're just going to have the plastic
21 elbow going over to the tank and then in the future it
22 will just connect straight through.
23 MR. KEENER: Okay. You couldn't do
24 any connection in the manhole?
25 MR. McHALE: Correct.
16
1 MR. KEENER: Okay.
2 MR. McHALE: They wanted to get the
3 connection in under the driveway, you know, before it was
4 paved and that -- that made sense, so that's why they put
5 the manhole in.
6 MR. KEENER: Okay.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: The only other thing
8 that the board needs to consider and maybe decide on this
9 morning, is, aside from the code revisions from the
10 applicant, it's my understanding that the applicant was
11 looking for also possible reductions for the financial
12 securities for the improvements to the property. It's my
13 understanding that the board may have been willing to
14 entertain that request, at least to a certain extent, if
15 the board's given that any further thought as well.
16 And any decision that the board does
17 make today will be conditional upon the township
18 engineer's latest review letter dated May 25, 2010, as
19 well as the applicant complying with all the conditions in
20 the March 11, 2010 conditional approval letter, with the
21 exception of the addition of a temporary holding tank and
22 a water storage tank, as well as the conditional usage
23 indication that was issued for this proposed use.
24 So the only conditions -- none of the
25 conditions in the March 11, 2010 conditional approval
17
1 letter are going to be changed with -- except for --
2 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yes.
3 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- the temporary
4 holding tank and the water storage.
5 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Correct.
6 MR. ARMSTRONG: Unless the board is
7 willing to waive or adjust the financial securities
8 amount, then that will also be revised accordingly.
9 MR. McHALE: The applicant's engineer
10 had provided a construction cost estimate and I believe
11 the number was somewhere around 247,000.
12 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Your number
13 sounds about correct.
14 MR. McHALE: As a part of that they
15 had -- for a sewage holding tank, temporary sewage holding
16 tank, you had $25,000. We were using that number as a
17 starting point for the sewage -- temporary sewage holding
18 tank permit; and if you did the 25,000, then consideration
19 could be given that after construction that be reduced to
20 80 percent of that number, or $20,000 to cover the
21 operation maintenance and then future abandonment. So
22 that's one way that it could be approached without having
23 it layered on numbers. So they could do something like
24 that.
25 And then the remaining portion, as
18
1 Mr. Armstrong indicated, would be left for your
2 consideration if you wanted to go with all, none or some
3 of that -- the remaining 247,000 or 23 --
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: So 25,000 financial
5 security for the temporary --
6 MR. McHALE: Holding tank.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- sewage holding
8 tank.
9 MR. McHALE: Right.
10 MS. PICKARD: That was included in the
11 247?
12 MR. McHALE: That was a part of the
13 247, but I believe at one of the work sessions there was
14 some discussion about maybe possibly even waiving all of
15 that number except the sewage holding tank.
16 MS. PICKARD: Do you have a breakdown
17 in front of you, by any chance?
18 MR. McHALE: This is -- is the one you
19 provided. It was 257,000, and that was the original one
20 sent, the holding tank.
21 (Discussion off the record between Mr.
22 McHale and Ms. Pickard.)
23 MR. McHALE: I spoke to our sewage
24 enforcement officer this morning, Mr. Brogan, and he
25 indicated that he has no problem with the application for
19
1 the temporary sewage holding tank permit. He did mention
2 that our township solicitor had an agreement that was
3 needing to be executed and the financial securities
4 considered as well, and I believe if they would just
5 provide a sketch right before construction as to the
6 number of tanks and, you know, how that capacity of 10,000
7 gallons was going to be accomplished. He would like to
8 have that prior to construction.
9 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: That's fine,
10 yeah.
11 MR. McHALE: Okay.
12 MR. KERRICK: The board's still in the
13 same mindset as we had before with securities, with the
14 exception of the sewage holding tank?
15 MR. MOYER: Yeah.
16 MS. LAMBERTON: In the climate of
17 trying to save the applicant an additional financial added
18 expense, I should say, I could understand where our
19 feeling was as far as they need to complete all these
20 items on this plan anyway in order to get the certificate
21 of occupancy.
22 I mean, I don't know, Patrick, if
23 that -- does that protect us as a township as well?
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: The whole purpose of
25 having financial securities is to make sure that the
20
1 applicant can -- you know, completes the improvements.
2 There's two ways -- and I think I've talked to the board,
3 but there's two ways the MPC provides for that to protect
4 not only the township but the residents in the township
5 surrounding the property, is, one, the applicant can
6 complete all the public improvements and related
7 improvements with the exception of the structure prior to
8 getting the building permit for that structure, or, you
9 know, they can post financial securities.
10 You know, there are situations out
11 there where -- you know, with respect to public roads, if
12 you don't require that financial security, the
13 township's -- you know, could be in a predicament with
14 respect to -- if the applicant does not complete those.
15 MS. LAMBERTON: This is private.
16 MR. ARMSTRONG: It's a private
17 community, it's a private lodge. I believe some of the
18 ones the board was considering was possibly storm water,
19 and I don't know if there was another section that you
20 were considering, but --
21 MR. McHALE: I do have one question,
22 and that is, at the time the certificate of occupancy is
23 requested -- and let's just say it's the end of November
24 or into December -- if the parking lot isn't paved and the
25 landscaping installed or something to that effect, then
21
1 how would the board handle that if there were no financial
2 securities? Would they ask then for select financial
3 securities or leave that open for the applicant to put up
4 financial securities until the next spring when all that's
5 installed? I mean, because the intent is to make sure
6 everything gets installed. That's all.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: That's the intent.
8 MR. McHALE: So it could be something
9 like that if -- and maybe that should be written into the
10 development agreement, that at such time, if you all
11 considered that, if those improvements weren't completed
12 and they wanted certificate of occupancy and they had
13 paving to go and it was winter conditions and they
14 couldn't pave, you know, it's either that or no
15 certificate of occupancy until March of April.
16 MR. ARMSTRONG: Right.
17 MS. LAMBERTON: It's reasonable.
18 Sure.
19 MR. ARMSTRONG: I would also write
20 into the development agreement that you're going to get,
21 which is also now going to include a provision for the
22 temporary holding tank, that there will be no C of O
23 issued or an occupancy of the premises until, you know,
24 all of the improvements are completed. And then if he
25 comes back and says, listen, we want our C of O, we want
22
1 to move in and they still haven't completed -- say it's
2 just landscaping, you can at that point say, well, you
3 know what? Maybe we'll allow the C of O subject to you
4 posting this amount to complete the rest of the
5 improvements.
6 MR. KEENER: I think we attach this
7 with the developer's agreement -- to the developer's
8 agreement, say this is the amount of the improvements that
9 are planned --
10 MR. ARMSTRONG: That is typically
11 usually an exhibit to the development plan.
12 MR. KEENER: Yeah. And as such, if
13 those items aren't completed then we would require the
14 bonding in the amount of the balance of the work to be
15 completed as determined by the township engineer. And,
16 you know, I'm good with that.
17 MR. MOYER: That's reasonable.
18 MS. LAMBERTON: Yeah.
19 MS. PICKARD: I just had one other
20 item. We haven't signed the plans yet for the original
21 land development because the conditions haven't been met,
22 so is that just at this point mostly the developer's
23 agreement?
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: It's the develop --
25 there willing a developer's agreement, which is done.
23
1 We're just waiting for you guys to get it and sign it.
2 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Okay.
3 MR. ARMSTRONG: There's going to be
4 the typical township --
5 Bob, correct me if I'm wrong, there's
6 going to be a need for a storm water management --
7 MR. McHALE: Storm water maintenance
8 agreement, but there will be no inspections, fees or
9 anything attached to that, annual inspections.
10 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. The township
11 has a general formula that they use for that.
12 As for a separate temporary holding
13 tank agreement, I pretty much put all of that into the
14 developer's agreement, so you won't need a separate
15 agreement for that. I don't think there's any necessary
16 easements for this particular project, even for utilities.
17 MR. McHALE: Just right of access for
18 inspection purposes.
19 MR. ARMSTRONG: Right.
20 MS. PICKARD: So all of those things
21 need be completed and we'll sign the original plans, we'll
22 sign these amended plans, then they need to be recorded
23 prior to issuing the zoning permit.
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: Right.
25 MR. McHALE: And, Mike, if you'd
24
1 update that --
2 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Cost.
3 MR. McHALE: -- cost estimate with
4 the -- I think all you have left is the -- the vault
5 and --
6 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yeah.
7 MR. McHALE: -- the water storage
8 tank.
9 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yep. We can
10 correct that.
11 MR. McHALE: Because you had a number
12 in for the temporary sewage holding tank.
13 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yeah. We can add
14 that.
15 MR. ARMSTRONG: So when and if the
16 board is going to enter a motion to approve the requested
17 revisions and the waiver of the financial securities with
18 the exception of the temporary holding tank today, what
19 I'll do is, I'll finalize the development agreement, send
20 it out to you guys probably, you know, tomorrow --
21 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Okay.
22 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- and have you guys
23 sign it, send it back to the township, and you guys can
24 approve it, sign it and make sure all the other conditions
25 are met. I know that the water storage tank was meant to
25
1 address the building code official's requirement.
2 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Yes, that's true
3 too.
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: I don't know if you
5 completely -- have you -- well, I guess that's for you.
6 Before you get a building permit you're going to have to
7 make sure the building code official's okay.
8 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Exactly. That's
9 why there's notes on the plan for the water storage tank
10 notes that all calculations and final tank sizing will be
11 submitted to you and also Bureau Veritas for their review.
12 We're just strictly showing the planometric features on
13 where the structure's to be then. We're not responsible
14 for those calculations and size of the tanks.
15 MR. KEENER: So the $25,000, is that
16 going to be part of the bonding for the temporary holding
17 tank or is that --
18 MR. ARMSTRONG: That would be by
19 letter of credit or cash escrow.
20 MR. KEENER: Okay. So that's with the
21 sewage permit?
22 MR. ARMSTRONG: That's for the sewage
23 holding tank.
24 MR. KEENER: But is that part of our
25 approval? Is that part of our approval or is that part of
26
1 the sewage --
2 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. When you make
3 your motion, if you're willing to waive all the other
4 improvement requirements -- well, financial securities for
5 the other improvements, just make clear that you are,
6 however, requiring $25,000 financial securities for the
7 temporary holding tank.
8 MR. KEENER: All right. I'll make a
9 motion we approve Project No. 2009 dash 005, the Arrowhead
10 Lake Community Association proposed community lodge
11 subject to compliance with our engineer's letter dated May
12 25, 2010; also the waiver of financial security subject to
13 inclusion in the developer's agreement that if a
14 certificate of occupancy is requested that financial
15 security of the remaining improvements be obtained and
16 that $25,000 be held for the temporary holding tank --
17 sewage holding tank.
18 MR. ARMSTRONG: In compliance with all
19 the other conditions --
20 MR. KEENER: Yeah, and catch all for
21 compliance of any other conditions that may have been --
22 MR. ARMSTRONG: Prior approval.
23 MR. KEENER: -- identified in the
24 prior approval.
25 MS. PICKARD: I second the motion.
27
1 MR. KERRICK: Can you repeat that back
2 to me?
3 Motion and second on the floor.
4 Questions or comments from the board?
5 Questions or comments from the public
6 on the motion?
7 Call the vote. Jamie?
8 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
9 MR. KERRICK: Anne?
10 MS. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
11 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
12 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
13 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
14 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
15 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
16 Motion carried.
17 Thank you.
18 MR. MICHAEL FENICK: Thank you very
19 much. Have a good day.
20 MR. KERRICK: You the same.
21 Next item on the agenda, Harry DePue,
22 Inc., extension for time request.
23 Heidi has an announcement.
24 MS. PICKARD: We want to announce that
25 we did forward Mr. DePue's request for a time extension to
28
1 PennDOT; and if Pat feels it necessary, we can approve
2 this subject to -- if it is approved by PennDOT, that we
3 would --
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: It's my
5 understanding --
6 MS. PICKARD: -- grant the extension.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: It's my understanding
8 the board does not have a problem with the requested
9 extension of time. You can do it by motion subject to
10 PennDOT also approving the extension. And if you need to
11 do anything subsequent to PennDOT's action on the
12 extension, you can do that at that time.
13 My understanding is the reason for the
14 extension is the time to manufacture the actual bridge for
15 the pedestrian path takes longer than the two month period
16 in the contract.
17 MS. PICKARD: If we have a motion now
18 and then the approval comes in tomorrow, then we're good
19 to go, basically? I don't want to hold it up if we -- if
20 a motion would help expedite.
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah, you can do a
22 motion today. Just make it subject to -- you know,
23 concurrent with PennDOT the extension's acceptable.
24 MS. PICKARD: Then I'll make a motion
25 that we approve the extension of time request from Mr.
29
1 DePue subject to PennDOT's approval.
2 MR. ARMSTRONG: Do you want to put a
3 time frame on that extension?
4 MS. PICKARD: To September 30 -- is it
5 September 30?
6 MR. McHALE: I believe that's the
7 date. We can verify that.
8 MR. KERRICK: Motion. Do we have a
9 second?
10 MR. KEENER: Second.
11 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
12 Questions or comments from the board?
13 Questions or comments in the public?
14 Call the vote. Jamie?
15 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
16 MR. KERRICK: Anne?
17 MS. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
18 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
19 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
20 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
21 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
23 Motion carried.
24 Does the board have anything else?
25 Pat, do you have anything else?
30
1 MR. ARMSTRONG: I do have something
2 else. The township received a correspondence from
3 Pinecrest Lake with respect to some unfinished roads
4 within that development. They're requesting that the
5 township investigate, I guess, the status of those phases
6 of the PRD for Pinecrest, as well as the financial
7 securities posted for those improvements.
8 Bob, do you know the -- Bob had sent
9 me some of the bonds and letters of credit for some of the
10 phases of Pinecrest. In the letter from Pinecrest they
11 identified two or three roads within the development. Do
12 you recall those roads off --
13 MR. McHALE: Phase 2, Section 3, I
14 believe, was Westminster's. And I think what's lacking is
15 the wearing course. We have to look into the other phases
16 and outline what's necessary for those financial
17 securities that were placed, but the other thing is, this
18 request is being made by Pinecrest Development Corp., I
19 believe?
20 MR. ARMSTRONG: I think it was the
21 trust --
22 MR. McHALE: Or the trust?
23 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- wasn't it?
24 MR. McHALE: And the professional
25 service agreements that we have in place or had in place
31
1 or who was paying for any work that we were doing
2 internally here was done by either Westminster, Teicher,
3 it could have been Neil DeLuca. There was like several
4 different developers involved in these different phases
5 and whatever time's expended -- especially if we went to
6 the point where we were actually putting together
7 documents to bid in order to have this work done, you
8 know, we're going to have time expended for those kind of
9 things and we should have some kind of an agreement in
10 place, I would think, to move forward.
11 MR. KERRICK: Does that come in under
12 the securities?
13 MR. ARMSTRONG: That would come out of
14 the securities, financial securities. Obviously -- I've
15 dealt with this before. Always the problem is an extended
16 amount of time goes by and the securities that you have in
17 bonds or letters of credit is barely enough, if enough, to
18 cover the actual improvements; but then you also have your
19 engineer, your solicitor, other professional consultants
20 working on the time, so that also takes from the amount.
21 So chances are that money's going to dwindle down to an
22 amount not enough to cover all the improvements.
23 And what has typically been done is
24 townships, you know, they recognize this and the
25 developer's still on the hook, we just don't have that
32
1 money and we'd have to go after them for that. So
2 townships have, in the past, where you do have to go in
3 there, take the money and have the improvements completed
4 through the township. You address the more prudent
5 improvements first, stabilizing the site. If it's
6 unstable, storm water --
7 MR. McHALE: The overlayer, the final
8 wearing course, in order to make the numbers work, we
9 might have to reduce that thickness of pavement or
10 something to --
11 MR. ARMSTRONG: I think --
12 MR. McHALE: -- that effect. There
13 may be some things that have to be worked out in order to
14 stay within budget of what's being held.
15 MR. ARMSTRONG: And I think the
16 improvements that were identified is just the road, right?
17 The roadways at this point, if I read the letter
18 correctly.
19 I think what needs to happen probably
20 is, number one, I don't think you're in a position today,
21 because we don't have all of those phases and the status
22 of them today, but maybe at your next meeting discuss
23 possibly finding one or two of those developers in default
24 and then drawing on the financial securities until we
25 secure that money to make sure the improvements are
33
1 completed in the future, you know? But I think -- go
2 ahead.
3 MR. KERRICK: No. That's fine.
4 Bob and I, we had gone there on site.
5 I think the only thing that was left was the wearing.
6 MR. McHALE: For that phase, I think
7 that's correct.
8 MR. KERRICK: Stabilization, and I
9 think -- did we see a report from the Monroe County
10 Conservation?
11 MR. McHALE: Conservation District may
12 have provided the final inspection, but the site was
13 pretty stable. But still --
14 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- phase --
15 MR. McHALE: This was Phase 2, Section
16 3, I believe, but --
17 MS. PICKARD: Westminster --
18 MR. McHALE: There's about two or
19 three phases that have letters of credit that are still in
20 place.
21 MS. HAASE: Five and six.
22 MR. McHALE: Five and six has other
23 things like the storm water basin and swales and a few
24 other items related to storm water management, E&S that
25 need be completed, as well as paving. I think most of the
34
1 utilities are in on five and six, but, again, it's
2 something we have to go back to, look and see what's still
3 outstanding.
4 But then again, like Pat was saying,
5 there's gonna have to be something issued to these
6 developers saying they're in default, and I'm sure they're
7 gonna counter back with something and it's going to take
8 quite a while, I would think. Then when we look at if we
9 had to go out to bid for these things, we're probably
10 going to have to use prevailing wages because these are
11 going to be over the -- is it 25,000 mark?
12 MR. ARMSTRONG: So Phase 2, Section 3,
13 that's the only --
14 MR. McHALE: That's the one I recall
15 that they needed the wearing course on the entire roadway.
16 There's a couple other phases that may have other work
17 like five and six, but they have -- in addition to roadway
18 work, they have storm water and E&S things to take care
19 of.
20 MR. ARMSTRONG: Okay.
21 MS. PICKARD: If we wanted to reduce
22 the wearing course, does that pose an issue for us as far
23 as the people in that phase that we have required --
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: Reduce --
25 MR. MOYER: A certain amount of inches
35
1 we're talking about maybe --
2 MR. McHALE: When you reduce --
3 MR. MOYER: -- instead of four inches
4 go to three inches.
5 MS. LAMBERTON: Longevity.
6 MR. McHALE: They have -- they have
7 the subbase and the binder in.
8 MR. MOYER: Right.
9 MR. McHALE: It's the final wearing
10 course, which is usually maybe anywhere from an inch to an
11 inch and a half --
12 MR. MOYER: Right.
13 MR. McHALE: If we could -- now, we're
14 gonna get down to a point where if -- inspect it an inch,
15 and if we go below that, it's going to be hard to place
16 it, then we won't be able to do that; but we'll -- we
17 would have to find a way that, you know, in bidding these
18 things, that we stay within those financial constraints
19 that we have, you know, to the best of our ability. And
20 that's the only way I would know to do the pavement.
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: So --
22 MS. PICKARD: If --
23 MR. ARMSTRONG: So the wearing course
24 for phase --
25 MR. KERRICK: Why don't we prepare --
36
1 MS. PICKARD: Yeah.
2 MR. KERRICK: -- a detailed --
3 MR. McHALE: Yes.
4 MR. KERRICK: -- inventory of the
5 different sections --
6 MR. McHALE: That's what we need.
7 MR. KERRICK: -- for the next meeting?
8 Bob and I will take care of that.
9 MR. ARMSTRONG: That makes sense.
10 MR. KERRICK: And then distribute it
11 to the board at the work session.
12 MR. MOYER: Yeah. Then we have an
13 idea.
14 MS. PICKARD: I just have --
15 MR. KEENER: Sorry.
16 MR. McHALE: This first --
17 MS. PICKARD: -- one other question on
18 five and six. That was one we just renewed?
19 MR. ARMSTRONG: This was Teicher?
20 MR. McHALE: Yes.
21 MS. PICKARD: Teicher -- that we had
22 asked for an increase in that and then at the same time we
23 got the renewal of the letter. Was that ever addressed by
24 the developer?
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: What happened was at
37
1 the end of last year we got notification that the bank was
2 not going to renew it. We sent a default letter saying
3 we're going to be drawing on it. They subsequently sent a
4 letter saying we're revoking our -- so it's still going to
5 be in full force and effect.
6 So we do still have that. They have
7 not increased it. I know Bob and I had discussed possibly
8 coming up with a number that would be appropriate to
9 increase it to. I don't think we ever got that number.
10 But currently that letter of credit is still available.
11 I'm not sure of the current balance because I'm sure
12 throughout the years it's been decreased to a certain
13 extent.
14 But that notification from the bank
15 was revoked after our notice that we were going to draw on
16 the letter of credit, in Teicher's -- I believe five and
17 six, Phases 5 and 6.
18 MR. McHALE: Yeah.
19 MR. ARMSTRONG: So they would be --
20 that letter of credit would be one that we would
21 potentially draw on.
22 MR. KERRICK: Anything else?
23 MR. ARMSTRONG: I don't think so. Not
24 from me.
25 MR. KERRICK: Anyone from the board
38
1 have anything else?
2 Public have anything?
3 Do you have anything?
4 THE REPORTER: (Reporter shook her
5 head.)
6 MR. KERRICK: Are you sure?
7 THE REPORTER: Yes.
8 MR. KERRICK: Phyllis?
9 Bob?
10 MR. McHALE: No, sir.
11 MR. KERRICK: We're adjourned.
12 (Meeting concluded at 8:43 a.m.)
13 ---
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
39
1
2
3
4
5
6
7 I hereby certify that the proceedings
8 and evidence are contained fully and accurately, to the
9 best of my ability, in the notes taken by me at the
10 meeting in the above matter; and that the foregoing is a
11 true and correct transcript of the same.
12
13 ________________________________
14 Jessica L. Holt, C.R.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25