Before
                     THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION
                                            ---

                In Re:  Reorganizational Meeting and
                        Regular Business Meeting
                                            ---
                    Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
                                       State Avenue
                           Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
                  Thursday, January 14, 2010, beginning at 7 p.m.
                                            ---

                PRESENT:     MARK SINCAVAGE, Chairperson
                             JOSEPH MILLER, Vice-Chairperson
                             ANNE LAMBERTON, Board Member
                             PATRICIA M. RINEHIMER, Board Member
                             ROBERT McHALE, P.E.,
                             Township Engineer
                             PATRICK ARMSTRONG, ESQUIRE, Solicitor

                                            ---





                                     Panko Reporting
                              537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
                            Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
                                     (570) 421-3620



                                                                        2
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'll call the
           2    regularly scheduled meeting of Tobyhanna Township
           3    Planning Commission to order.  Our first order of
           4    business is the reorganizational meeting.  I'm
           5    going to propose that we dispense with the
           6    appointment of a temporary chairman.
           7                         And if someone has a nomination
           8    for the position.
           9                     MRS. LAMBERTON:  I would like to
          10    make a motion to nominate the current commission
          11    members as they stand.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  And just for the
          13    record, those positions are chair, Mark Sincavage;
          14    Vice-Chairman, Joe Miller; Secretary, Rob Baxter.
          15                         Is that correct?
          16                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  That is
          17    correct.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  And do I have a
          19    second to the motion?
          20                         MRS. RINEHIMER:  I'll second.
          21                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          22    seconded.
          23                         All those in favor please say
          24    aye.
          25                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Aye.



                                                                        3
           1                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
           2                         MS. RINEHIMER:  Aye.
           3                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
           4                         We'll adjourn the
           5    reorganizational meeting.
           6                         Any public comment?
           7                         Next order of business is
           8    approval of the November 5, 2009 meeting minutes.
           9                         Motion to approve?
          10                         MS. RINEHIMER:  I'll make that
          11    motion.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I have a motion.
          13                         Do I have a second to the
          14    motion?
          15                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Second.
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          17    second.
          18                         All those in favor please say
          19    aye.
          20                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Aye.
          21                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          22                         MS. RINEHIMER:  Aye.
          23                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          24                         Next item is approval of the
          25    December 3, 2009 meeting minutes.  We have some



                                                                        4
           1    corrections that Tisher should be Teicher,
           2    T-e-i-c-h-e-r, on Page 9, Lines, 9, 10, 11, 16;
           3    Page 10, Lines 15, 17; Page 11, Line 5; Page 17,
           4    Line 6.
           5                         Do I have a motion to approve
           6    the December 3rd meeting minutes as corrected?
           7                         MR. MILLER:  So moved.
           8                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I have a motion.
           9    Do I have a second to the motion?
          10                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  I'll second
          11    that.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          13    second.
          14                         All those in favor please say
          15    aye.
          16                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Aye.
          17                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          18                         MS. RINEHIMER:  Aye.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          20                         Under old business we have
          21    Wee-Wons Day Care, final land development plan.
          22                         Pat, you were going to check on
          23    that for us?
          24                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Yeah, we have an
          25    open ended extension from the applicant.  They were



                                                                        5
           1    going to investigate whether or not they were going
           2    to change their plan around.  I have not heard
           3    back.  It's my understanding that they're still in
           4    the works.
           5                         Is anyone here from Wee-Wons
           6    tonight?
           7                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  All right then,
           8    we'll just leave it on the agenda.
           9                         Do I have a motion to table
          10    Wee-Wons Day Care?
          11                         MR. MILLER:  So moved.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Do I have a
          13    second?
          14                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Second.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          16    second.
          17                         All those in favor please say
          18    aye.
          19                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Aye.
          20                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          21                         MS. RINEHIMER:  Aye.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          23                         Locust Ridge Quarry, 940 Shop
          24    preliminary land development plan.  I guess that's
          25    still on --



                                                                        6
           1                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Yeah, they
           2    submitted a letter a few months ago indicating that
           3    they're going to put their project on hold for a
           4    little bit.  We have an open ended extension for
           5    that as well.
           6                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  Do I have
           7    a motion to table Locust Ridge Quarry?
           8                         MR. MILLER:  So moved.
           9                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I have a motion.
          10                         Second to the motion?
          11                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Second.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          13    second.
          14                         All those in favor please say
          15    aye.
          16                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Aye.
          17                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          18                         MS. RINEHIMER:  Aye.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          20                         Under new business, the first
          21    item is going to be a conditional use application.
          22                         Do you have any comments on that
          23    at this time?
          24                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Before you
          25    start discussing, this is for Arrowhead Lake?



                                                                        7
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Uh-huh.
           2                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I can go into
           3    base -- what would be the second item, land
           4    development for --
           5                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Right.
           6                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  -- Arrowhead
           7    Lake?  My presentation would be just for the entire
           8    project and you can overview it.
           9                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Let's do it that
          10    way.
          11                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Just do it that
          12    way?  Sounds good.  All right.
          13                         I believe there was a
          14    presentation made at a meeting, I guess, back in
          15    November, I believe, for I guess it would have been
          16    a presubmission meeting for the conditional use.
          17    And I'll give you another overview.  We can over
          18    the site plans with you, just to bring you back up
          19    to speed on what the project entails.  And then
          20    I'll discuss some of the other issues that are open
          21    based on some of the comment letters we've received
          22    from the township engineer, Monroe County Planning
          23    Commission and also the conservation district.
          24    Give you a status of all those items.
          25                         Again, this is -- this plan is



                                                                        8
           1    the Arrowhead Lake Community Lodge project near
           2    Arrowhead Lake Community.  We're before the
           3    planning commission for a conditional use
           4    application and preliminary/final land development
           5    plan for the construction of a 12,480 square foot 1
           6    story community lodge which replaces the old lodge
           7    that was there, I guess, up until the middle of
           8    last year.
           9                         I'll give you a heads up on the
          10    existing site.  The existing site is about 4.23
          11    acres.  It's currently zoned R2, but it's subject
          12    to a conditional use since it's a site amenity --
          13    considered site amenity and it's subject to the RR
          14    district requirements.  The old lodge on the site
          15    was demolished back sometime in 2009.  What's left
          16    on the site is the existing parking lot to the
          17    facility, which is a paved parking lot and access
          18    road, along with the gravel access road and parking
          19    lot that comes off of Arrowhead Drive.  Also on the
          20    site is open grassed areas, trees, some existing
          21    wetlands that basically front the lake.
          22                         The proposed plans you see up
          23    there is the 12,480 square foot lodge.  It will
          24    contain a 3700 square foot banquet hall that should
          25    seat up to close to 250 people, a fitness center,



                                                                        9
           1    billiards room, great room, reading room, cafe`,
           2    full kitchen.  A lot will be multipurpose rooms,
           3    support spaces such as restrooms, bathrooms,
           4    storage spaces, screened porch, a deck off the back
           5    and a patio.
           6                         There's parking currently
           7    planned for 70 cars and we do meet the zoning
           8    requirements based on the amount of people that
           9    could be in that facility at any one time.  We
          10    based it on a maximum of 250 people being in the
          11    facility, and based on the parking calculations you
          12    would need 66 parking spaces.  That would be, you
          13    know, probably the largest event we ever hold at
          14    the facility.  But most days there won't obviously
          15    be that many folks there because they'll just be
          16    using -- you know, the people coming to the
          17    recreational facilities.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'm sorry, how
          19    many parking spaces are you providing?
          20                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  70.  The
          21    existing tennis court is proposed to be converted
          22    over to a parking lot without having to excavate it
          23    out or construct an additional parking.  And if I
          24    had a -- I wish I had a pointer on me, but -- do
          25    you have a pointer?  Excellent.



                                                                        10
           1                         The existing tennis court is
           2    right here.  And all that we're proposing here is
           3    to possibly repave it but at a minimum just
           4    restripe it for parking.  Take the fence down,
           5    create an access point here to the drive aisle in
           6    to the facility here.  Access is going to be
           7    provided from the existing roadway which is Lake
           8    Shore Drive, I believe, here and also one off
           9    Arrowhead Drive.  This is Lake Shore Drive, this is
          10    Arrowhead Drive, and basically a new paved entrance
          11    at the existing gravel entrance that's there today.
          12                         There will be handicapped
          13    parking spaces here, a handicap ramp here.  Loading
          14    dock area on the right-hand side of the building,
          15    on the east side.  Garbage dumpster here.  This
          16    thing here is a proposed rain garden.  But I'll get
          17    into that in a few more minutes here.
          18                         The stormwater basically will be
          19    conveyed to the lake with a series of inlets and
          20    pipes.  Many of the roof leaders along the building
          21    will just outlet right into the grass which will,
          22    you know, help decrease the amount of water to
          23    runoff directly into the lake.  We're proposing a
          24    rain garden here which will act as a water quality
          25    treatment facility to slow down the runoff into the



                                                                        11
           1    lake.
           2                         We are requesting a waiver.  One
           3    of the waivers that we're going to request is for
           4    meeting the stormwater detention, the stormwater
           5    requirements.  This site sits in the Lehigh River
           6    watershed, thus we only need to meet the
           7    requirements for the two, 10 and 25 year storms.
           8    But due to the proximity to this large lake, we're
           9    right off the existing lake, any increase in runoff
          10    -- but we're only proposing a small increase in
          11    runoff which really is going to be pretty
          12    negligible compared to, you know, what was going
          13    there before.
          14                         So that's why we're asking --
          15    we're requesting the waiver so we wouldn't have to
          16    construct such a large detention basin right next
          17    to the lake.  So we'll talk a little bit more about
          18    that when we get to the waiver letter.
          19                         Sanitary sewer, currently I
          20    understand that you're aware of the issues with
          21    Arrowhead Lake and some of the sewer issues there.
          22    I guess right now they're currently updating their
          23    Act 537 Plan.  And the direction that we were given
          24    was to test the site for -- I lost the plan -- the
          25    direction was given to do testing on site to see if



                                                                        12
           1    an on-lot system could be constructed.
           2                         The testing was performed by
           3    your SEO and did a series of soil tests out there.
           4    We're unable to even set up any perk test because
           5    none of the soils would have perked anyway so
           6    basically the testing proves that an on-lot system
           7    is not feasible for this site.  So that would
           8    hopefully allow us to connect to the existing
           9    public system that's constructed in the
          10    development.  And what we're proposing to sewer the
          11    facility with is with an on-lot grinder pump
          12    system, sanitary sewer system.
          13                         We submitted landscaping and
          14    lighting plans and they were submitted to only meet
          15    the ordinance requirements.  The landscaping plans
          16    shows -- I think we have a landscaping plan -- if
          17    you scroll a while, you'll be able to see it.  And
          18    what's proposed for landscaping is just buffering
          19    along the front of the property here along Lake
          20    Shore Drive, along the side there of Arrowhead
          21    drive.  There's some additional screening trees
          22    here which are rows of evergreen shrubs and
          23    evergreen arborvitae and I believe inkberries along
          24    here.  This plan is the most up to date plan.  We
          25    revised this plan based on comments by Mr. McHale.



                                                                        13
           1                         We've also submitted a lighting
           2    plan which provides lighting to meet the ordinance
           3    requirements for onsite lighting.  There's nothing
           4    -- I mean, right now the plans do not show any
           5    additional landscaping in detail within the site
           6    confines.  That would just be up to Arrowhead on
           7    what they would want to do with signage there.  But
           8    we're purposing what's required by the ordinance.
           9    We are within the ordinance requirements.
          10                         We've got a few issues.  We did
          11    receive, like I said, a comment letter from
          12    Mr. McHale and the letter includes some zoning
          13    issues and a number of issues.  I don't know if
          14    you'd like to get into the comment letter and go
          15    through each issue point by point, but I think that
          16    would be more of a waste of time rather than just
          17    talking about some of the issues that really are a
          18    bigger issue.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I think from
          20    what I understand a lot of the issues on
          21    Mr. McHale's letter are just engineering stuff.
          22                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yeah, a lot of
          23    engineering.  We've already discussed --
          24                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Is that correct,
          25    Bob?



                                                                        14
           1                         MR. McHALE:  Yes, sir.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So if you guys
           3    want to work that stuff out, but let's talk about
           4    the bigger issues because you have some bigger
           5    issues here.
           6                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
           7    And I'm, you know, prepared to speak.
           8                         The number one issue was with
           9    our submission we provided a letter right from the
          10    get go requesting relief to a buffer requirement.
          11    Right now, as the site sits as a -- as a site
          12    amenity.  If you go into the zoning ordinance and
          13    look, there's a requirement for a 20 foot buffer
          14    along the entire property line.  You can see the
          15    property line runs here, which is the right of way
          16    line for the road, runs along here and then runs on
          17    this cul-de-sac bulb here.
          18                         And if you look at this line
          19    here, this is a 20 foot buffer line.  Basically it
          20    states that there shouldn't be anything in it
          21    besides landscaping, but as you can see the tennis
          22    court encroaches into it, the whole time, the
          23    tennis court nearly all the way up to the right of
          24    way line.  It's pretty interesting, if you look
          25    just right at the roadway it's hard to tell from



                                                                        15
           1    this plan where the existing roadway is because
           2    there's some line types that are awfully dark, like
           3    the sewer line here, it's just really dark.  But
           4    the edge of pave for the roadway is right about
           5    here, kind of parallel with that sewer line.  And
           6    you can see the right of way line is here.
           7    Actually, the roadway is not even on center with
           8    the right of way line, so the right of way line
           9    really pushes the buffer, you know, further into
          10    the property than it really needs to be.
          11                         MR. McHALE:  Can we scroll back
          12    to the site plan, please?
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  This is the site
          14    plan.
          15                         MR. McHALE:  No, that's the
          16    conditional use plan.
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's a
          18    cleaner plan.  Yeah, you can see it a little bit
          19    better there.  There's not so many -- the utilities
          20    are much lighter.  There's the existing roadway,
          21    you know, and -- actually the tennis court was
          22    about 40 feet off the roadway.  Anyway --
          23                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  How much did the
          24    tennis courts intrude into the 25 foot buffer.
          25                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  20 foot buffer?



                                                                        16
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  20 foot, yeah.
           2                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I think close
           3    to 15 feet.  It's pretty substantial.  And then up
           4    along here, if you were to run the buffer line
           5    around -- you run the buffer line around the
           6    existing right of way, you know, like there was
           7    never really a cul-de-sac built in here, the
           8    roadway went up into a parking lot, so, you know,
           9    there was public parking for the existing facility
          10    in the cul-de-sac area at the time.
          11                         And what we're proposing is, see
          12    the -- this hash, this dark hash up here is all the
          13    existing paving that's there today.  So you can
          14    see, you know, how much pavement is already in that
          15    cul-de-sac right through that buffer and beyond
          16    that.  And what we're proposing here is, you know,
          17    parking -- five parking stalls here, you can see
          18    the buffer line does extend into the drive aisle a
          19    little bit, you know, but we're trying to -- are
          20    proposing a series of arborvitae and shrubbery
          21    along here to create a hard buffer along that.
          22                         And, like I said, we don't have
          23    any parking stalls, you know, proposed in the
          24    buffer.  The same thing with this area here, the 20
          25    foot buffer, we're not proposing any parking



                                                                        17
           1    stalls.  There is another buffer too that --
           2                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Just so I'm
           3    understanding, so where's the edge of the pavement
           4    on that road?
           5                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Right here.
           6                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.  And then
           7    from that to the proposed parking lot is what, 40
           8    feet?
           9                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  About 40 feet.
          10                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.  So that
          11    you're taking the 20 foot buffer from the edge of
          12    the right way.
          13                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          14                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Is that what
          15    you're doing?
          16                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          17    The buffer is measured off the right of the
          18    property line.
          19                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.
          20                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  And that's how
          21    it's described in the ordinance or defined.  So
          22    we're requesting that we -- we're basically
          23    requesting relief from that part of the ordinance,
          24    from that 20 foot buffer that mainly, you know --
          25    for the conditional use process.  I think that's



                                                                        18
           1    the largest issue that we have.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  What is your
           3    rationale for requesting it?
           4                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Well, trying to
           5    keep all of the parking.  Trying to get the most
           6    parking we could possibly get without building an
           7    additional lot in the rear.
           8                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  But you do have
           9    property on the lot that you could build a parking
          10    lot without intruding on the buffer.
          11                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Here's the
          12    other story:  The other part of story is this --
          13                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Before we get
          14    too in depth, that's a zoning regulation --
          15                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.
          16                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  -- right?  So
          17    any relief from that this board doesn't have -- I
          18    mean, you can give your comments on it but they
          19    can't grant you a variance for relief from a zoning
          20    ordinance.
          21                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I think there's
          22    a little confusion on that.  Is that something that
          23    could be addressed as part of -- during the
          24    conditional use hearing?  If this is a conditional
          25    use -- it's not a straight land development where



                                                                        19
           1    we would have identified that right away as a
           2    variance item.  The direction I received from the
           3    zoning officer was to address this from the get go
           4    here and try to address it during the conditional
           5    use hearing process.  And she didn't believe it was
           6    a case for applying for a variance.
           7                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Well --
           8                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That was the
           9    interpretation that we received and the direction
          10    that we got.
          11                         MR. McHALE:  In the definitions
          12    -- and this is one of the reasons why they had
          13    submitted a request for relief, even though
          14    technically they're not being granted a variance,
          15    but just from looking at the interpretation, if you
          16    look at Section 155101, Subparagraph (I) it says a
          17    buffer strip not less than 20 feet in width shall
          18    be provided between any such use and any plotted
          19    lot in the subdivision.  And then under the
          20    definition of buffer strip it's a strip of land at
          21    least 15 feet in width which may be part of the
          22    minimum setback distance with the exception that
          23    the buffer must be left in it's natural state and
          24    may not be paved or used for parking.
          25                         And what they've done is, those,



                                                                        20
           1    if you want to say the tennis court and the
           2    existing parking were features that were already
           3    there.  So they're not proposing to pave and
           4    they're not proposing to put anything in there,
           5    they're just leaving what's already there.
           6                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
           7                         MR. McHALE:  There is another
           8    section of the ordinance, 15555 which speaks to a
           9    ten foot requirement for drive aisles and parking
          10    spaces.  And they have modified their plan to meet
          11    that zoning requirement because that is something
          12    that would have required a variance and there's no
          13    interpretation --
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          15                         MR. McHALE:  -- way to interpret
          16    it.  It's pretty straight forward.  You have to
          17    have ten foot of separation from the property line
          18    drive aisles and such.
          19                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  And we've done
          20    that.
          21                         MR. McHALE:  And you've done
          22    that.  You actually modified your original
          23    submittal to make that happen.
          24                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  You're actually
          25    looking at the latest plan.  That's not the same



                                                                        21
           1    set --
           2                         MR. McHALE:  Correct.
           3                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  -- of plans
           4    that you reviewed.
           5                         MR. McHALE:  Right.
           6                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  So you're not
           7    proposing to extend -- I'm looking at you're not
           8    proposing to extend that parking area where the
           9    tennis court is?
          10                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          11    Actually we're minimizing it.  We're actually --
          12                         MR. McHALE:  They're trimming it
          13    back actually from --
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Correct.  If
          15    you actually look at the existing -- the existing
          16    edge pave is basically right here on the tennis
          17    court.  We're actually trimming it back to where
          18    the darker line is.
          19                         MR. McHALE:  To make the ten
          20    foot requirement.
          21                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Correct.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  But you are
          23    going to have to pave the parking lot.
          24                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Not necessary,
          25    we'll just restripe it.  It's already paved.  It's



                                                                        22
           1    a hard surface.  It hasn't been determined yet.
           2    We're not proposing an overlay on this plan.
           3                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  The
           4    radius in the one section that's right near the
           5    corner of the cul-de-sac, you're not going to pave
           6    that?
           7                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Excuse me.
           8    Right here?
           9                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Yes.
          10                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That pave is
          11    being removed.  The dark hash --
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  No, the radius
          13    right there.  The radius going around -- yes.
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  No, the --
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  You're just
          16    going to cut the blacktop and leave what's there?
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's how we
          18    have it in the plan right now, yes.  So we're
          19    actually removing a good part of the existing
          20    paving that's within the cul-de-sac bulb and what's
          21    within that buffer.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Is the current
          23    Arrowhead Lake Road, I believe it is, or Drive, is
          24    that paved?
          25                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Arrowhead



                                                                        23
           1    Drive?  Yes, it's paved up into the cul-de-sac and
           2    the existing --
           3                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  But the
           4    cul-de-sac was never put in?
           5                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Well, it was
           6    never -- there was never a bulb put in.  Basically
           7    the existing pave -- just follow the red line here,
           8    the red dot, runs up along this line here through
           9    this dark hash, so this is all the existing
          10    pavement.  Actually, if you can flip over to -- if
          11    you can flip back in the drawings you'll see the
          12    existing conditions plan which will show what's
          13    there today or what was there previously.  Go back
          14    one more.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  That's as far
          16    back --
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's all we
          18    have, huh?
          19                         MR. McHALE:  Go to the older set
          20    of plans.
          21                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Here we go.
          22    The existing pavement runs basically -- creates
          23    like a hammer head, this area here.  So we're
          24    reducing the amount of pavement that's currently in
          25    that area, you know, with the removal of the



                                                                        24
           1    pavement in this area here, that dark hash.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Pat, it's an
           3    existing -- it's a recorded right of way.  I'm
           4    having a real problem with it, that they're
           5    intruding, you know, within the buffer area.  There
           6    was pavement placed in the old right of way, but, I
           7    mean, we're approving new plans, so we're going to
           8    leave the nonconforming use, for lack of a better
           9    word, to continue to exist?
          10                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  The
          11    nonconforming use on the access road?
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Yeah.  I mean,
          13    the cul-de-sac -- it must be, obviously a
          14    cul-de-sac is designed for safety at the end of the
          15    road there, so you have a place to turn around,
          16    that's the purpose of a cul-de-sac.
          17                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  But there's a
          18    current access.  They currently access that portion
          19    of the property by that road.
          20                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  All this
          21    property here will still have access, what they do
          22    today.  We extended the -- we extended basically
          23    from this piece of asphalt in here right to the
          24    edge of this property line.
          25                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And that's a



                                                                        25
           1    private road?
           2                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  This is a
           3    private road.  All these roads in the development
           4    are private, correct?
           5                         A VOICE:  That's a dead end.
           6                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And who is it --
           7    Arrowhead Lakes Homeowner's Association --
           8                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
           9    These are not township roads.
          10                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  -- that
          11    maintains those roads?
          12                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          13    These are not township roads.
          14                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  What kind of
          15    improve -- now the dark checkered area is what
          16    you're going to rip up.
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Removed.
          18                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  What are you
          19    proposing, like grass landscaping?
          20                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Grass, yes.
          21                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Just grass?
          22                         MR. McHALE:  And trees.
          23    Landscaping within that buffer area.
          24                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Oh, yeah,
          25    that's right.  Yeah, there'll be a row of trees and



                                                                        26
           1    shrubs around this bend here.
           2                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And are you
           3    repaving any portion of that private road up
           4    through, what is that, Lake Shore Drive?
           5                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We're not
           6    proposing that on this plan at this point in time.
           7                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  But all of those
           8    lots to the left of Lake Shore Drive will continue
           9    to have access off of that road?
          10                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  But yet your
          12    parking lot, your new parking lot there is in the
          13    buffer area?
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  As well as your
          16    driveway.  The driveway is okay.  I don't have a
          17    problem with the driveway.
          18                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Part of that is
          19    in the buffer area, but the original parking lot
          20    was --
          21                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Was already in
          22    there.
          23                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Was completely
          24    in the buffer area.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Just because it



                                                                        27
           1    was wrong in the past doesn't mean that we can keep
           2    being wrong in the future.
           3                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I understand
           4    that.  And here's the other reason --
           5                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  That's what I'm
           6    having a problem with.
           7                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Well, here's
           8    the issue that we had to deal with in the site:  We
           9    have tried to minimize the amount of new impervious
          10    area on the site and minimize the amount of
          11    disturbances, site disturbances to keep this
          12    project from entering into an NPDS permit.  We
          13    worked closely with the Monroe County Conservation
          14    District with a couple of meetings, before we made
          15    any submissions to the township and to them.  We
          16    also met with Mr. McHale and Ms. Haase about this
          17    project.  Met them a few times to try to craft this
          18    thing to allow it to get in and meet as many new
          19    ordinance requirements as possible without getting
          20    into an NPDS permit.
          21                         If this project were to need an
          22    NPDS permit, it would follow a lot more strict
          23    guidelines and, to be honest with you, a good
          24    chance that the site would be unbuildable, we would
          25    not be able to build a new facility on the site.



                                                                        28
           1    So with the addition of another parking lot say in
           2    this area in the back here, which would have been
           3    logical for additional parking -- I mean, in the
           4    original concept there was no parking proposed on
           5    the tennis court.  I mean there was a parking lot
           6    proposed in the back, which would have increased
           7    the amount of impervious area on the site
           8    substantially, so we're really stuck in a bind to
           9    try to keep the limited surface down to a minimum
          10    than increase the imperviousness on the site to a
          11    minimum.  So we're asking for a little bit of
          12    relief here in order to keep us from putting
          13    additional parking in the back, increasing the
          14    imperviousness of the site, you know, and pushing
          15    us into possibly an NPDS permit which would
          16    possibly keep this project from even becoming a
          17    reality for the board.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I don't
          19    understand your hardship yet.  Not that that's our
          20    issue here, that's going to be your issue at the
          21    zoning hearing board.  And we can make
          22    recommendations to the zoning hearing board.  So in
          23    order for this board to make a recommendation that
          24    we think that this is a good plan, I need to
          25    understand why --



                                                                        29
           1                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Well, here we
           2    go.  These five parking spaces here, if I don't
           3    have these five parking spaces I do not meet the
           4    parking requirements for the facility.
           5                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  But you have
           6    area on the site that you can put parking.
           7                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I have area
           8    that I can put parking on the site, additional
           9    parking on the site, but that will create a
          10    hardship for the project, the reality of the
          11    project.  It will create a hardship --
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Why is that a
          13    hardship?
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Because the
          15    NPDS permit, which will become an individual
          16    permit, because this is high quality waters, to
          17    make an individual permit, it will be under strict
          18    review by not only Monroe County Conservation but
          19    possibly PA DEP where they follow these guidelines
          20    right to the T, there's no gray areas for them.
          21    They're going to require us to do a -- they're
          22    going to require us to do infiltration testing on
          23    site and want us to minimize the amount of site
          24    runoff by not releasing the difference between the
          25    pre and the post development two year storm.



                                                                        30
           1                         That volume -- we did, what?  --
           2    five test pits on this site for perk tests, found
           3    out the soils will not work.  We won't get
           4    infiltration on the site.  We go back to DEP into
           5    the review of -- go back to DEP and the
           6    Conservation District with testing that says we
           7    can't get infiltration to work, obviously, we're
           8    right next to the lake, the site only rises about
           9    three or four feet above the lake, so, you know,
          10    the soils on the site are typically wet, so I don't
          11    believe we would be able to construct infiltration
          12    facilities on the site that would meet the
          13    requirements.  It would make it very difficult to
          14    get an NPDS permit, make this project very
          15    difficult to make it a reality.
          16                         So all we're asking for is a
          17    little bit of relief on this buffer area here.  The
          18    only thing that we're requesting relief on to make
          19    this thing become a reality.  And keep in mind,
          20    these are private roadways that are owned and
          21    maintained by the association.  You know, there was
          22    issues in the past that they had the parking lot in
          23    the cul-de-sac area and we're doing all we can to
          24    minimize that, but keep the five parking spaces
          25    there.



                                                                        31
           1                         So we're gratefully asking for
           2    some relief on that.
           3                         MR. McHALE:  I'm not sure that
           4    there would be a formal relief, if you will,
           5    granted, because that would actually be a variance,
           6    but I think it's more in terms of an interpretation
           7    of the ordinance given that there is some --
           8                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  There is
           9    conflicting statements in that ordinance, correct.
          10                         MR. McHALE:  Yes.  I mean, when
          11    you look at the development amenity section, it
          12    says a 20 foot buffer, but then the definition
          13    says, you know, 15.  And then it also speaks to
          14    that the 20 foot in width should be provided
          15    between any such use and any plotted lot of the
          16    subdivision.  And the right of ways are right of
          17    ways, they may not be technically considered
          18    plotted lots.
          19                         So in looking at a plotted lot,
          20    I would look at -- if you use that pointer and go
          21    to the west side of the development -- northwest
          22    side, right, those four lots along Arrowhead, those
          23    are all plotted lots, so you have a buffer of the
          24    right of way, plus the buffer they're providing on
          25    the development.  Same thing with the southeast



                                                                        32
           1    corner side --
           2                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Right.
           3                         MR. McHALE:  -- these are
           4    plotted lots.  So they're maintaining the 20 foot
           5    buffer there and around the rest of the
           6    development.  So I'm just saying that it's not
           7    really a formal relief that this board or the board
           8    of supervisors wouldn't be granting in terms of a
           9    variance, but just rather taking into account all
          10    the different statements within the ordinance and
          11    coming up with the best fit for the development.
          12                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And that's
          13    something you should be -- you've been talking
          14    about this relief, relief, we can't grant you any
          15    relief.
          16                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I understand
          17    that.
          18                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Just so you're
          19    aware --
          20                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I know this is
          21    the planning commission.  I know we're going to
          22    have a hearing on the 4th -- I believe the 4th,
          23    with the board of supervisors, for the conditional
          24    use, but I wanted to discuss this here also.
          25                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  I'm assuming the



                                                                        33
           1    tennis courts are be removed and it's just going to
           2    be used solely for parking area?
           3                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
           4                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Anyone have any
           5    comments on the buffer issues right now?
           6                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  I do.  If that
           7    cul-de-sac was never developed, does that buffer
           8    stay with that area?  Like, see how the buffer goes
           9    around and it's a cul-de-sac and there's obviously
          10    current parking and pavement there, but that never
          11    was developed into a cul-de-sac, obviously.  I
          12    mean, does that make it a valid outline to show the
          13    valid buffer?
          14                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  If that's the
          15    recorded -- is that the recorded subdivision with
          16    the cul-de-sac on it?
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          18                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And it was just
          19    the way it was paved was outside --
          20                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's how it
          21    was constructed, yes.
          22                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  So they just
          23    put the pavement there?
          24                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Uh-huh.  As the
          25    parking lot for the original lodge.



                                                                        34
           1                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Yeah, the way it
           2    reads for the 20 foot buffer is, you know, between
           3    any such use in any plotted lot subdivision.
           4                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Right.  They
           5    probably legally had to put in that -- in order to
           6    get the plan approved for the original subdivision
           7    of Arrowhead Lakes, they probably had to put in
           8    that cul-de-sac.  So they shoved it and they chose
           9    to disregard the right of way.
          10                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Okay.
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So here we are
          12    probably 40 years later, right?
          13                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          14                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Is that how
          15    long ago it was?
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Well, at least
          17    30.  I think it was done in the early '70s, as I
          18    recall, Arrowhead Lakes.
          19                         A VOICE:  I think Arrowhead had
          20    its 45th anniversary.
          21                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Well,
          22    congratulations.
          23                         Is there any way you can extend
          24    that new parking area and just get rid of --
          25                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  This area here?



                                                                        35
           1                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Yes.
           2                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  No, we were up
           3    against wetlands on this side here.  Well, no,
           4    actually, wetlands are further over.  I take that
           5    back.  There's a --
           6                         MR. McHALE:  Isn't that a wooded
           7    area?
           8                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  This is all a
           9    wooded area, yes.  The tree line runs along here.
          10    And then again it gets back to the point of, like
          11    you said, adding additional pavement, parking, that
          12    puts us into more disturbance, you know, more
          13    impervious that the Monroe County Conservation
          14    District has been very helpful because we are over
          15    the one acre of disturbance.
          16                         MR. McHALE:  But there is no
          17    point source discharge.
          18                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  There is no
          19    point source discharge.
          20                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I don't
          21    understand how you're getting away with that.
          22                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I understand
          23    that.
          24                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Well, you better
          25    explain it to me.



                                                                        36
           1                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  What's your
           2    main question?
           3                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  How are you not
           4    having a point source discharge from that rain
           5    guard.  I see rock coming out of that --
           6                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  The way we're
           7    getting around this is Monroe County Conservation
           8    District basically stated to us that we can get
           9    away from a point source discharge during
          10    construction by not connecting all the pipes to
          11    this rain guard till most -- till the site is all
          12    stabilized and basically ready to go.  So during
          13    construction, the erosion control plan basically
          14    has a perimeter silt fence around it as the main
          15    erosion control device; which means there's going
          16    to be no point source discharge, this rain guard
          17    won't be releasing water until the site's fully
          18    constructed and stabilized.
          19                         We set -- we ordered our
          20    sequence of construction that way, took the lead of
          21    the Monroe County Conversation.  They agreed to it.
          22    They've already reviewed the plans once.  We did
          23    received their comment letter yesterday.  I believe
          24    they had eight or nine comments on it.  And I think
          25    we can meet their process within another month or



                                                                        37
           1    so and have an erosion control permit for the site.
           2                         And just so you know, they did
           3    hire -- they do have an on staff engineer now which
           4    reviewed the plans also and agreed with it also.
           5                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Those properties
           6    to the left of Lake Shore Drive, are they improved?
           7                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I believe only
           8    -- there's only one of them improved?
           9                         A VOICE:  Only one.
          10                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Which one?
          11                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  This one here?
          12                         A VOICE:  It's the one above, I
          13    think.
          14                         MR. McHALE:  That's along
          15    Arrowhead.  That's Arrowhead Drive, correct?
          16                         A VOICE:  It's either this one
          17    or that one that has that house and the other ones
          18    are vacant.
          19                         MR. THEODORE BOREK:  May I
          20    speak?
          21                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Sure.
          22    Absolutely.
          23                         MR. THEODORE BOREK:  I think
          24    that you might be viewing this as a public right of
          25    way, but actually the owners -- the applicant's



                                                                        38
           1    property starts here.  And I believe this gentleman
           2    was alluding to that.  The property starts here and
           3    goes across.  All this is under single ownership,
           4    the roads and this.  So we're not violating any
           5    conventional public right of ways or setbacks or
           6    anything like that.  This is all private property.
           7                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I don't know if
           8    I agree with that statement, sir, because the
           9    recorded private roads within a development have
          10    the right to be used by everyone in that
          11    development.
          12                         MR. THEODORE BOREK:  That's
          13    correct.  And they are owners of this property.
          14                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  And I understand
          15    that.
          16                         MR. THEODORE BOREK:  So they are
          17    entitled from this line over to use this property.
          18                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  That may be true
          19    -- what Mr. Sincavage is trying to say, even though
          20    you may own the property from where the road is,
          21    the road was still part of that approved
          22    subdivision.
          23                         MR. THEODORE BOREK:  That's
          24    correct.
          25                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  So the buffer



                                                                        39
           1    still comes into play because it's arguably a plot
           2    within the subdivision.
           3                         MR. THEODORE BOREK:  Does the
           4    buffer apply to private roads, in your ordinance?
           5                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  It has nothing
           6    to do with roads.  The buffer is between the
           7    proposed use, which is your development amenity,
           8    and neighboring lots on that approved subdivision.
           9    That's the way -- that's the way that the ordinance
          10    reads and that's the way the buffer is applied.
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Bob, correct me
          12    if I'm wrong, but I think always in the past the
          13    buffer is applied to the right of way line.  That
          14    is a property, isn't that correct?
          15                         MR. McHALE:  Well, the buffer
          16    that's described in the development amenity is a
          17    little different than the other buffers that we
          18    normally see in like the SALDO.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  Maybe
          20    that's where I'm getting hung up.
          21                         MR. THEODORE BOREK:  I think
          22    that's the point I was trying to make.
          23                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  The buffer is
          24    listed under development amenity; isn't specific
          25    where it should be measured from.  The only --



                                                                        40
           1                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And you've
           2    talked to the zoning officer about this?
           3                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes, we have.
           4                         And the only definitive buffer
           5    is the ten foot buffer, parking buffer, where
           6    you're not allowed to have any parking lots,
           7    parking spaces, drive aisles within ten foot of the
           8    property line.  And, like I said, Mr. McHale
           9    pointed that out in his review letter and we did
          10    change the plan to meet that requirement.
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So the current
          12    plan that we are looking at does not show any
          13    parking lot within the ten foot setback.
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Well, yeah, the
          15    current layout plan.  Not this plan that you have
          16    up, this is a condition use plan.  We didn't revise
          17    that plan yet.  I don't think that's the plotted
          18    revised plan.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  That one.
          20                         MR. McHALE:  But you're removing
          21    any pavement within ten feet of the right of way
          22    line or the property line?
          23                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes, except for
          24    the driveways.
          25                         MR. McHALE:  Yes.



                                                                        41
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Oh, all right.
           2                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes, we're
           3    moving -- all pavement within ten foot of the right
           4    of way lines will be removed.  As you can see up in
           5    this area here, this is ten feet from here to here.
           6    When we did the revised plan, we pushed the -- drew
           7    the parking lot a little bit closer to the
           8    building.  In this area here we just pushed the --
           9    we basically restriped this lot, we pushed the
          10    stripes up a little bit more.  We actually lost
          11    three parking spaces -- actually the last three
          12    spaces in the tennis court area from the last
          13    submission.
          14                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  There is some
          15    interpretation because of the difference between --
          16    well, between an amenity, which is in a private
          17    development and a public property.  My hang up is,
          18    I'm not trying to give you guys a hard time, I
          19    don't want someone else to come back in here before
          20    this board and say, well, you gave them a variance
          21    or use and you were okay with them, why are you
          22    giving us a problem.
          23                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I understand.
          24    I understand your point absolutely.
          25                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  But it sounds



                                                                        42
           1    like you've discussed this with the zoning officer.
           2                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes, we have.
           3                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  She's made an
           4    interpretation as to what --
           5                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  And now that
           6    Mr. McHale has pointed it out, I can understand
           7    that it is a difference between an amenity within a
           8    private development and a lot that's not in a
           9    development.
          10                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  The buffer is
          11    treated differently.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  The buffer is --
          13    well, the wording is different in the ordinance,
          14    okay?  It says 20 feet from a property line -- from
          15    a lot.
          16                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Which that's
          17    what that gentleman was saying is that that is one
          18    whole parcel from that person's property line
          19    inclusive of that road and the entire parcel.
          20                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Right.  Whereas
          21    the buffer in the public sense, it says from the
          22    right of way line.  It's unclear.  So that's where
          23    --
          24                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Okay.  I
          25    understand that.



                                                                        43
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  -- I'm kind of
           2    okay with.
           3                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Okay.  That's
           4    great to hear.
           5                         MR. MILLER:  I have a question.
           6    Are all your property owners aware of what you're
           7    doing?
           8                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Yes.
           9    Absolutely.  And I assure you the people are well
          10    involved.  It is the people that designed this.
          11    It's the people what we call an ad hoc committee
          12    and that started out with 45, 50 people, Don?  Don
          13    is the liaison to that committee.  So that's all
          14    their input.  It's all their excitement.  It's
          15    everything.  And it's still going on, still going
          16    on.  But this final approval was by the people
          17    first.  It was an open meeting.  This is what we
          18    want to do.  They took us to the square footage
          19    that we have there.  They are the ones that
          20    required the weight rooms, the gyms for the ladies,
          21    the sitting area, reading area and TV area.  The
          22    banquet hall is something that Arrowhead Lakes has
          23    needed and wanted for a long time.
          24                         MR. MILLER:  Thank you.
          25                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  You're



                                                                        44
           1    welcome.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  I think
           3    we're kind of -- are we over the buffer, kind of
           4    over that or can we move on?
           5                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Okay.  I'm
           6    getting --
           7                         MR. McHALE:  Before we get off
           8    that, I think our chairmen wanted to talk a little
           9    bit about we may want to go to the landscape plan
          10    because you all had suggested some like little berm
          11    -- a little bit of berming along that strip.  There
          12    is a fair amount of vegetation, being shrubs and
          13    trees, in that area to try to protect the adjoining
          14    property owners from headlights from the parking
          15    area.  There was also some existing fencing, I
          16    think, along one or two of the lots where it's like
          17    a stockade type fence or a wooden fence, and I
          18    don't know if they had some issues with privacy in
          19    the past, but in an effort to try to avoid any
          20    conflicts, I think the planning commission was
          21    looking for some kind of a slight berm, even if it
          22    was a foot or two, whatever you can make work in
          23    that front buffer area.  And I don't know that you
          24    have that on the plan.  I think you just have
          25    vegetation, is that correct?



                                                                        45
           1                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Are you talking
           2    about -- I'm looking at the plans up over here,
           3    Bob.  Are you talking about this in the front?
           4                         MR. McHALE:  Yes.  You weren't
           5    planning at this point to berm those or are you?
           6                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We're not
           7    planning to berm that because the roadway actually
           8    is higher up in grade than the existing -- the
           9    proposed parking lots.  I believe there's maybe
          10    like a three to four foot difference in elevation
          11    between the elevation of the parking lot and the
          12    roadway.
          13                         MR. McHALE:  Why don't we go to
          14    the grading plan and that might depict it a little
          15    bit better.
          16                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes, there you
          17    go.  You have to be close enough to actually see
          18    it.
          19                         Can you see these gray lines
          20    here down a little bit, back down to here?
          21    Perfect.  The change in grade, for instance, if
          22    you're in this tennis court, you've got about --
          23                         MR. McHALE:  Those two foot
          24    contours or one?
          25                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  These are one



                                                                        46
           1    foot contours.  So you've got one, two, three --
           2    three and a half to four feet change in grade
           3    between Lake Shore Drive and the tennis court.  And
           4    then in this parking lot over here you've got a
           5    change in grade of roughly three feet or so.  So
           6    there's already bas -- there's already a berm
           7    there, so you know -- for headlights, for, I
           8    believe -- for instance, anyway, most people would
           9    be parked in this parking lot, you know, head in.
          10    Probably won't have a lot of headlight spillage out
          11    to the roadway, but if you do, what will help,
          12    number one, is -- the change in grade of the
          13    roadway along with the proposed vegetation that's
          14    being proposed along there should alleviate any
          15    issues.
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  What about along
          17    the cul-de-sac road or Arrowhead Drive?
          18                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That is pretty
          19    much at grade.  Arrowhead Lake Drive is almost at
          20    grade with this parking lot.  As you head down the
          21    road, the roadway drops in grade, basically meets
          22    grade right here.  So that's why we're proposing
          23    along here a real tight row of arborvitaes and some
          24    other shrubbery as you can see here.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Can you get a



                                                                        47
           1    berm in there?  That's only to protect the
           2    headlights from going over on the other side there.
           3    You do seem to have enough room in there.
           4                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I think we have
           5    enough room most of the way.  I think where we're
           6    getting a little bit tighter is right here.
           7                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Well, you're
           8    already violating that right of way anyhow so --
           9                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Right.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  And the same
          11    thing with that lower section there.
          12                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Which section?
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Where you have
          14    the other landscaping that's already in the
          15    cul-de-sac.
          16                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yeah, there is
          17    room to put it.  There's room to put a berm in.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I think we would
          19    -- I think I'd like to see a berm just to get that
          20    up a little bit, just so the headlights aren't
          21    going over to those properties on the other side.
          22    And that would help also preventing light going
          23    across the lake.
          24                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  No, I can
          25    agree with you -- the one thing I'll guarantee,



                                                                        48
           1    those people, they want to be able to see the lake.
           2    And the higher I go, the madder they're going to
           3    get.
           4                         MR. McHALE:  That berm is going
           5    to be probably two, three feet at most.  We're not
           6    talking about a big --
           7                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  I heard them
           8    say four foot.
           9                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  No, no.
          10                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  I don't see a
          11    problem with that.
          12                         MR. McHALE:  Because headlights
          13    are only 24 inches or three feet off the ground.
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  You're talking
          15    a berm two to three feet high and then you're going
          16    to have trees on top of that berm.
          17                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Right.
          18                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Arborvitaes are
          19    pretty tall, unless you want some other type of
          20    shrub.
          21                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  I would say
          22    if that's what you would wish we would do it.  I
          23    don't know what the true results of the people --
          24                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  The people
          25    across the street from the clubhouse parking are



                                                                        49
           1    going to be affected by the view, is that your
           2    concern?
           3                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  They are
           4    already bragging, these lots across the street here
           5    and so on, they're already bragging about the
           6    beautiful view they're going to have of the
           7    building and the lake.
           8                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  The building,
           9    yeah.
          10                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  And of the
          11    lake.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Yeah, but
          13    they're already -- as your engineer explained,
          14    they're already higher, so they should be seeing
          15    over the berm.  I mean, it's got to be maybe six
          16    foot and change by the time you get to that
          17    building lot.
          18                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So they should
          20    still be able to see over the plantings.
          21                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I would think
          22    so.
          23                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  I believe it.
          24    You know, I could also -- I'm not sure, I think
          25    those lots there, they're on an incline, Don,



                                                                        50
           1    aren't they?
           2                         A MALE VOICE:  On this side of
           3    the shore, yes.
           4                         MALE VOICE:  On this side here
           5    they're elevated above --
           6                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  So with our
           7    offset from the house requirement to build a home,
           8    I don't think the headlights would hit the windows,
           9    you know what I mean?  Because it's a hill, a
          10    building --
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Right.  But you
          12    still -- you have to put in screening according to
          13    the ordinance.
          14                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Oh, okay.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So that's them.
          16    But all we're are asking for is the berm along the
          17    -- I'm not sure what direction this is.  Yeah,
          18    along there.
          19                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  The west side.
          20                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  The west side.
          21                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Oh, no
          22    problem.
          23                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Just there and
          24    the area right there, correct.
          25                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  I don't see



                                                                        51
           1    that as a problem.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  The area along
           3    -- right?  We're all in agreement?
           4                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Right, that's
           5    fair.
           6                         MR. RINEHIMER:  Right.
           7                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Okay.  Fine.
           8    Yeah, that's --
           9                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Now, the other
          10    thing the township engineer just pointed out, could
          11    we wrap the landscaping around that parking lot --
          12    give me my pointer back -- right there.  Landscape
          13    this area like you have it here just so again
          14    keeping the headlights off of that.
          15                         MR. McHALE:  Up to a point where
          16    you still maintain a clear sight triangle for your
          17    exiting vehicles out of your parking areas and
          18    which it looks like some of your arborvitae might
          19    even be for that area where you have --
          20                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  You're
          21    talking here, sir?
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Yes.
          23                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  The only
          24    problem I can see is I don't want to have a safety
          25    hazard where people coming out can't see if



                                                                        52
           1    anything's coming in.
           2                         MR. McHALE:  That's why we're
           3    saying that you need to keep open a clear sight
           4    triangle for that.  But if you shift those
           5    arborvitae away from the curb enough to get that
           6    clear sight triangle but then provide the berm as
           7    the planning commission is requesting with the
           8    landscaping that would be --
           9                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Sure.  Anyway,
          10    I guess I'll get into the next issues here that I
          11    wanted to address.  We did submit the plan with the
          12    waiver letter.  I believe we were originally
          13    requesting three waivers, but we're going to have
          14    to, based on the review of Mr. McHale, we're going
          15    to have to expand upon that.  We're going to
          16    request four SALDO waivers and they're basically
          17    the same thing; SALDO 135 Section 12, 135 Section
          18    15(a), 135 Section 17(l), 135 Section 17(m),
          19    basically a similar requirement for showing
          20    streets, roads, buildings.  They vary per SALDO
          21    item, but the main point of it is all within 500
          22    feet of the site.  You know, we're going to request
          23    a waiver because obviously, due to the nature of
          24    the site, where it's located, we don't have survey
          25    that, you know, depicts all that detail 500 feet



                                                                        53
           1    around the entire site.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  We don't have
           3    any problem with that.  Just revise this letter
           4    because you already said 17(m) so make it --
           5                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
           6    I'll resub -- when we do our next submission we'll
           7    have the correct letter and we'll put the request
           8    on the plan also.
           9                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  We don't
          10    have a problem with that.
          11                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  All right.  So
          12    it's four waivers basically the same thing.  And
          13    the fifth waiver would be a waiver on the
          14    stormwater requirements.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Explain that to
          16    us.
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We submitted a
          18    plan requesting a waiver -- I mean the stormwater
          19    discharge requirement is for the two 10, 25 year
          20    storm.  To eliminate the need of having to
          21    construct a large detention basin so close to the
          22    lake -- you know, we went and did the calculations.
          23    There was a small increase in runoff between the
          24    pre and post development storms.  Knowing that we'd
          25    be increasing the runoff very minimally to the



                                                                        54
           1    lake, we felt that there would be no impact, any
           2    impact to the lake.
           3                         And also the location -- where
           4    we are in the drainage area here, when this side
           5    releases its peak discharge into the lake, we're
           6    right up against the lake, right at the bottom of
           7    the drainage area, so our peak from the site will
           8    pass before the actual peak gets to the lake from
           9    the large drainage area that encompasses it.  And I
          10    believe in the letter from Mr. McHale, he agreed
          11    with the request.  And also I got a favorable
          12    comment from the Monroe County Planning Commission
          13    review in here also that basically agrees with the
          14    request saying that it makes sense.
          15                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  What section is
          16    that?
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Section
          18    135.22(a).
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Bob, you're okay
          20    with this idea?
          21                         MR. McHALE:  Yes, sir.  What
          22    they're doing in addition to the waiver request, is
          23    that they're providing an element of water quality
          24    that's not really in this portion of SALDO.  This
          25    is one of the areas of the township we have four



                                                                        55
           1    water sheds, three of them are under Act 167
           2    ordinances and this one is not.  So the way the
           3    SALDO reads is a 25 year storm event for a ten
           4    minute duration pre to post.  If you take the
           5    tennis court areas, the existing lodge and some of
           6    these impervious areas that were already out
           7    there -- what would you say, that's probably 30
           8    percent, 40 percent of what you're proposing in
           9    impervious area?
          10                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.
          11                         MR. McHALE:  So your pre to post
          12    then is only what was -- I mean the differential is
          13    only going to be that remaining portion and what
          14    would go to the lake.  If we can go to the grading
          15    plan, we'll show the rain garden.  The one thing
          16    that the new DEP -- the BMP manual, best management
          17    practices manual, emphasizes as one component of
          18    that is to take your roof runoff and try to get it
          19    into a vegetated area, and that's what they've
          20    done.
          21                         They had some leaders that were
          22    connecting to the storm sewer system and I think
          23    you've disconnected those, correct, for the most
          24    part?
          25                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We're



                                                                        56
           1    attempting to.
           2                         MR. McHALE:  They're going to
           3    take as many downspouts and go into the grassed
           4    areas as possible and then that rain garden, if you
           5    will, if you want to point to where the discharge
           6    is coming out of the parking area is kind of on the
           7    lower end and then they'll have a rain garden,
           8    vegetation in that rain garden, and then they don't
           9    have a pipe discharge out of there, it's just
          10    simply an overflow area.  So we're going to get a
          11    little bit better water quality.  They're also
          12    going to install snouts in their storm sewer system
          13    in lieu of -- and the lake, I don't know how many
          14    acre feet you have in that lake, but even if you
          15    looked at pre to post, the impact, I don't even
          16    know could be calculated to three decimal places.
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  It's very
          18    minimal.  The increase is very minimal.
          19                         And just a little bit more
          20    information on the rain garden, what you're looking
          21    at is basically a two foot depression, it's got a
          22    one foot of permanent storage, so basically it will
          23    hold one foot of water.  An underdrain is going to
          24    be installed to slowly drain it.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Where?



                                                                        57
           1                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  It'll be
           2    installed in the bottom basin --
           3                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Where is it
           4    going to drain to?
           5                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Excuse me?
           6                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Where is it
           7    going to drain to?
           8                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  It's going to
           9    drain into the lake.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  You told me your
          11    site is --
          12                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  No, no, just an
          13    under drain, a french drain.
          14                         MR. McHALE:  And you had talked
          15    at one point about not even putting the pipe in,
          16    just wrapping geotextile fabric and --
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yeah.  We
          18    haven't gotten that far yet.
          19                         MR. McHALE:  Right.
          20                         I didn't want to see you get
          21    into a point source discharge, so you have to cover
          22    that with the conservation district as well.
          23                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes, because we
          24    believe that we're not going to get any
          25    infiltration because of the proximity to the lake



                                                                        58
           1    and the wet conditions that are out there.  But the
           2    purpose of that is basically to slow the runoff
           3    into the lake, allow it to slow down and get caught
           4    up -- you know, because there's one foot of storage
           5    there that will slow the water down, allow some
           6    flowables to -- not flowables but I mean like silt
           7    and sediment to settle up before it enters the
           8    lake.
           9                         MR. McHALE:  But you have snouts
          10    in the storm sewer system to --
          11                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We also have
          12    snouts -- yes.
          13                         MR. McHALE:  Oil, water, debris
          14    separator.
          15                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          16    Oil, water, debris separated.
          17                         The other issue that came up in
          18    the review that was a zoning issue was the building
          19    height.  On our zoning compliance summary we noted
          20    that the maximum building height is 29 feet and we
          21    proposed a roof elevation of 32 feet.  I was called
          22    on it obviously and after further investigation of
          23    the zoning ordinance, working with the zoning
          24    officer, determined that you could be above -- you
          25    could propose a building height higher than 29 feet



                                                                        59
           1    as long as 50 percent of the roof is not above the
           2    minimum -- the maximum building height.  And I went
           3    back to the architect and they calculated that only
           4    14 percent of the roof is going to be above 29
           5    feet.
           6                         MR. McHALE:  Excuse me, how much
           7    was that again?
           8                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  14 percent.
           9    About 1700 square feet of the building roof is
          10    going to be above 29 feet.  And basically it's the
          11    center -- it's going to be right in the center of
          12    the building.
          13                         MR. McHALE:  And I believe in
          14    our electronic files there is architectural
          15    drawings and I believe there may be a sheet A1.1
          16    floor plan.
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yeah.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'm sorry, what
          19    number, Bob?
          20                         MR. McHALE:  A1.1.
          21                         A VOICE:  I don't have that.
          22                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I'm not the
          23    architect of this, so I have to -- north elevation.
          24    Is that's the rear.  The south elevation is
          25    actually the front, the face of the building.  But,



                                                                        60
           1    anyway, that's the backside.  This is good enough.
           2    The part of the building that obviously is going to
           3    be above the 29 foot elevation is right down
           4    center.  This is looking basically right -- you're
           5    looking basically from the rear of the building
           6    towards the road.  So this is the portion of the
           7    building that's going be above 29 feet.
           8                         MR. McHALE:  And you sent those
           9    electronically.  I think they were all -- there you
          10    go.  That's a good one that shows the area that
          11    will exceed that.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Oh, okay.
          13                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  There you go.
          14                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  The zoning
          15    officer -- you've talked to the zoning officer
          16    about this?
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes, we have.
          18                         MR. McHALE:  Mr. Chairman, if
          19    you scroll one more page -- go up to the menu
          20    there, there we go.  There is a line 29 foot
          21    building height that goes through the top of the
          22    roof there.  There you go.
          23                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  And they're the
          24    same line there.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  It's a nice



                                                                        61
           1    building and it will be a nice addition.
           2                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Almost done
           3    here.  I'll just give you an update on the other
           4    agencies' reviews.
           5                         We did receive comments from the
           6    Monroe County Planning Commission yesterday.  We
           7    did discuss them with Mr. McHale.  And I don't know
           8    if you wanted to -- I mean, basically we were
           9    planning on addressing the comments.  There wasn't
          10    a lot of comments.  Most of them were statements.
          11    Some of the comments were a repeat of what
          12    Mr. McHale had.  And we're not going to make a
          13    formal -- we're not going to respond formally back
          14    to the Monroe County Planning Commission.
          15                         What we'd like to do is just
          16    address some of the comments that we feel that need
          17    to be addressed or Mr. McHale feels that need to be
          18    addressed or you.  And we went over them and I
          19    believe in our response back we'll basically state
          20    what comments we feel that need to be addressed.
          21    And Mr. McHale advised me to go over them with you
          22    tonight.
          23                         MR. McHALE:  Chad, do you want
          24    to just highlight the items that --
          25                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.



                                                                        62
           1                         MR. McHALE:  -- we have not
           2    covered in our review letter but that they may have
           3    brought up?
           4                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Okay, yes.  No.
           5    6 of the first letter from the Monroe County
           6    Planning Commission had to do with the traffic flow
           7    through the parking lot using symbols and arrows on
           8    the site plan has not been indicated --
           9                         They stated in Comment No. 6
          10    that traffic flow through the parking lot using
          11    signs and symbols on the site plan has not been
          12    indicated.  It is also recommended that an internal
          13    pedestrian walkway system that connects the
          14    community lodge and parking area be considered.
          15    And we can certainly add some additional painted
          16    flow arrows on the proposed paving and proposed
          17    lots along with a crosswalk.  Now, that's a comment
          18    that wasn't raised by Mr. McHale.
          19                         No. 8, they raised the question
          20    about emergency truck access plan.  We did submit
          21    plans to Bureau Veritas and the Tobyhanna Township
          22    fire chief for review of the circulation for their
          23    emergency vehicles.  And we have not received any
          24    comments back from any of the two folks.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Bob, do you know



                                                                        63
           1    how they're going to handle fire suppression?
           2                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Sir?
           3                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Yes.
           4                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  We've already
           5    met with the Thornhurst Fire Company and they are
           6    going to put in a suction line with a -- into the
           7    lake and attachments.  These are going to be in
           8    this grass area or on that side of the grass area
           9    where they will attach their vehicles to, to take
          10    the water from the lake to fight any fire that
          11    might --
          12                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  That'll have to
          13    be approved by the building code officer.
          14                         MR. McHALE:  Well, yes.  They'll
          15    provide comments regarding that.  But also I think
          16    recently some of it came about I think because of
          17    the bridge situation over the Lehigh River.  Chad,
          18    I think we were discussing this in our
          19    teleconference call that the Thornhurst Fire
          20    Company can't really, because of the load
          21    restriction, which I think is three tons over that
          22    bridge, they cannot technically service the way
          23    they need to, I guess, at this time point in time.
          24                         And there was discussion about
          25    Tobyhanna Township Volunteer Fire Company being



                                                                        64
           1    response -- or responding to any calls initially.
           2    That said, our fire chief with the Tobyhanna
           3    Township Volunteer Fire Company will make comments
           4    regarding dry hydrants because the dry hydrants in
           5    the past have created some problems for their fire
           6    equipment.  They've drawn in some gravel and things
           7    which destroyed $10,000 pumps.  So that whole issue
           8    needs to be ironed out, but, yes, that is the
           9    possibility of putting a fire hydrant in the lake.
          10    We'll leave it to the fire code officials and the
          11    fire chief to provide review comments so that this
          12    board can look at it as well before the next
          13    meeting.
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Excellent.
          15                         And then the other comment that
          16    came up was No. 10.  The existing well is not
          17    indicated on any of the plans.  It is shown on the
          18    existing conditions plan.  And what we need to also
          19    show on the plan is the location of the proposed
          20    well.  And that's one of the comments I believe --
          21    I don't believe we had a comment from the township
          22    on that.  So we're going to show the location of
          23    the proposed water well.  It wasn't existing --
          24                         MR. McHALE:  You had shown the
          25    existing well on your existing conditions plan and



                                                                        65
           1    we were assuming that you are going to utilize that
           2    well.
           3                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct,
           4    but that's not the case.
           5                         MR. McHALE:  Correct.  So you're
           6    going to show a proposed well and you're going to
           7    show the proper abandonment of the existing well?
           8                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
           9    We'll add notes stating that.
          10                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  The county's
          11    review letter indicates that you're -- are you
          12    proposing ten more parking spaces than is required
          13    by zoning?
          14                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  At the time
          15    that they reviewed the plan, we had additional
          16    parking.  We were proposing additional par -- the
          17    parking -- first of all, the parking count that was
          18    -- the required parking spaces are based on the
          19    amount of folks that could be in the building.  We
          20    based it on 250 people at any event to necessitate
          21    the need for the parking, plus we also added
          22    additional parking for employees and service -- you
          23    know, people that would be servicing the facility
          24    for the larger events.  So that's how we came to
          25    that original one.  We do not want to lose any



                                                                        66
           1    parking as well.
           2                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  So what is the
           3    number that you came to that you're --
           4                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We're down to
           5    66 parking spaces.
           6                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And you're
           7    proposing 70 --
           8                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I lost all my
           9    notes here, I apologize.
          10                         MR. McHALE:  67 is shown on your
          11    current plan there.
          12                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Okay.  So we
          13    actually -- what we did -- that makes sense because
          14    we did lose three when we revised the parking
          15    layout of the tennis court.  So there's actually
          16    two comment letters.  There was one letter from the
          17    planner and one letter from RKR Hess.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Could you go
          19    back to the parking spots?  We have a question up
          20    there.  You're required to have 66 spots --
          21                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  -- according to
          23    our ordinance.  You're proposing 70.  That plan
          24    showed 70.
          25                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.



                                                                        67
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  That's what you
           2    told us earlier, right?
           3                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Uh-huh.
           4                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So you have four
           5    extra spots.
           6                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.
           7                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So if you
           8    eliminated that area there that goes into the
           9    buffer area -- back to that again -- that parking
          10    area on the side then, the west side, that's four,
          11    that's five.
          12                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We're required
          13    to have 66 parking spaces and --
          14                         MR. McHALE:  With the handicap,
          15    yes, you're showing 70.
          16                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We are showing
          17    70, correct.
          18                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  They wouldn't
          19    even need a waiver.
          20                         MR. McHALE:  I think the
          21    planning commission at Monroe County was suggesting
          22    that those additional spaces -- or maybe it was
          23    their engineer -- be converted to landscaping.
          24                         A VOICE:  That's right.
          25                         MR. McHALE:  But I think given



                                                                        68
           1    the facility and, you know, the unknown as far as
           2    having additional folks come into a banquet or
           3    whatever, I think the township would prefer to have
           4    the 70 spaces.
           5                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We also worked
           6    with the zoning officer prior to making our
           7    submission on determining what the parking
           8    requirements should be for the site.  And we
           9    discussed about having enough parking for having
          10    250 people in the facility plus additional parking
          11    spaces for services for people that would have to
          12    be on hand for those events.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Are you okay?
          14                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Uh-huh.  I was
          15    just --
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  We're all
          17    set.
          18                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Okay, great.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  We just wanted
          20    to explore that a little bit further.  Thank you.
          21                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  The note to the
          22    RKR Hess notes, there was I think Comment No. 4,
          23    access to the facilities proposed for both Lake
          24    Shore Drive and Arrowhead Drive.  Ownership of road
          25    should be indicated on the plans.  And we should



                                                                        69
           1    add that information on the plans.  That's not a
           2    problem.
           3                         No. 6 from the RKR Hess letter
           4    was water supplies proposed for an onsite well.
           5    The proposed or existing well location should be
           6    shown on the plans.  We already discussed that,
           7    that we would show the cap of the existing well
           8    following DEP guidelines and showing a new location
           9    of the well.
          10                          And that was it.  All the other
          11    comments were basically statements or were already
          12    addressed with the comments from Mr. McHale.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So that brings
          14    us to sewer.  We have a letter that says there is
          15    no onsite sewer.  You have to connect into the
          16    treatment plant, I'm assuming?
          17                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So we need some
          19    sort of letter from DEP that says you can connect
          20    into the new sewer system or you have the capacity
          21    to do that.
          22                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  We need a
          23    letter from DEP that states that.
          24                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  What did the
          25    previous clubhouse do?



                                                                        70
           1                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  The previous
           2    clubhouse had a holding tank, correct?
           3                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  That's all
           4    been removed.
           5                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aren't you going
           6    to have to do -- are the sewer lines in this area?
           7                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  There are sewer
           8    lines in there.  They're shown on the plan.
           9                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Oh, they are?
          10    Okay.  I didn't know they were in this area.  Oh,
          11    you did say that the line's going across the front
          12    of the property.
          13                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct,
          14    yes.
          15                         Okay.  I think we have that
          16    covered.
          17                         We did receive a letter from the
          18    Monroe County Conversation District.  And I don't
          19    think you want to go through that letter.  There's
          20    seven or eight comments.  We'll address them
          21    directly with the conversation district.  And with
          22    our next submission we'll submit a set of ENS plans
          23    with the land development plans.  We did submit to
          24    the Tobyhanna Township Fire Department and Bureau
          25    Veritas.  And I have not received any comments from



                                                                        71
           1    those folks.
           2                         MR. McHALE:  You may wish to
           3    wait until you do receive those comments because
           4    that cul-de-sac, and what I guess you would
           5    consider like a hammerhead turn around area that
           6    you're creating, they may want to comment on
           7    radiuses, widths or something to that effect which
           8    may need to adjust your proposed area that you're
           9    going to demolish paving.  So I would just wait
          10    until you hear back.  And they should respond
          11    within the next week or two I would imagine.
          12                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  What we're
          13    going to do is just give them a call just to see
          14    where it is right now.  Let them know where we're
          15    at.  Because what we would like to do is -- what we
          16    plan on doing now is, once we get comments from the
          17    fire department, Bureau Veritas, we would like to
          18    resubmit plans as soon as possible, do a
          19    resubmission, the response letter to the comment
          20    letter.  So that will be on the agenda for the next
          21    planning commission meeting.  Hopefully we'll get
          22    submitted within enough time that, you know, Bob
          23    will have enough time to review the plans before
          24    the next meeting so that we can come in here and
          25    hopefully work out the remaining issues and try to



                                                                        72
           1    get some sort of approval.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Bob, do you know
           3    what the next cut-off date is?
           4                         MR. McHALE:  It was the 13th.
           5    He is aware of that.
           6                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  I'm aware of
           7    that.
           8                         MR. McHALE:  We discussed that
           9    he would try to get plans in next week and then
          10    we'll do our best to work through that time issue.
          11                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Now, there's two
          12    things for the commission; there's the land
          13    development and then there's the conditional use.
          14    My understanding as tonight -- it seems like the
          15    applicant has a lot of things to tie up with
          16    respect to land development, so I don't know if --
          17    the commission is probably not going to make a
          18    recommendation on a land development tonight.
          19    However, the applicant has a hearing on February
          20    1st before the board of supervisors for the
          21    conditional use application, so your recommendation
          22    or comments with respect to the conditional use
          23    portion of the applicant's application should be
          24    made tonight or provided to the board of
          25    supervisors prior to that February 1st public



                                                                        73
           1    hearing.
           2                         And just for purposes of the
           3    planning commission this evening, Section 155.101
           4    under development amenities, there's a list of
           5    elements that you can consider when, you know,
           6    reviewing a conditional use application as this.
           7    And I don't know if you wanted to go through it
           8    step by step or just kind of -- one of them was
           9    hashed out in detail and that's with respect to the
          10    20 foot buffer strip.  I think the commission had
          11    an understanding with respect to that now.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Let's go over
          13    those and --
          14                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  The first one,
          15    this is the community center, the lodge, is that
          16    for purposes of Arrowhead Lakes residents only,
          17    solely?
          18                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Yes.
          19                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  It's not going
          20    to be a commercial enterprise used for nonresidents
          21    of Arrowhead Lake?
          22                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  No.  That
          23    building is owned by all 3,600 people that own
          24    properties in Arrowhead.  It's not for commercial
          25    use.



                                                                        74
           1                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.  So it's
           2    going to be for the family and guests of the
           3    tenants of the --
           4                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Family and
           5    guests.
           6                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Are there any
           7    advertising signs being proposed relating to the
           8    use?
           9                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  No.
          10                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Nothing?
          11                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  No.
          12                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Other than the
          13    buffer, all the setback requirements are complied
          14    with?
          15                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  Yes.
          16                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.
          17                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  It was a 20 foot
          18    buffer that was under interpretation by the zoning
          19    board, obviously.
          20                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          21                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  The parking
          22    facilities are complied with.  Actually, you're
          23    proposing four extra parking spaces.
          24                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That's correct.
          25                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Subsurface



                                                                        75
           1    disposal areas constructed to service this amenity
           2    shall not encroach on any required parking area or
           3    upon the buffer strip.
           4                         That's complied with?
           5                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Yes.
           6                         MR. McHALE:  There won't be a
           7    subsurface disposal area because they're going to
           8    have to connect --
           9                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  To the sewer
          10    lines.
          11                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And, again, no
          12    commercial or for profit activities being conducted
          13    at the proposed lodge?
          14                         MR. JOHN ADAMSON:  No.
          15                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.  Those
          16    are, you know, the majority of the sustentative
          17    issues with respect to the conditional use.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Right.  So our
          19    only recommendation to the board of supervisors is
          20    that the mounds be placed along the western side
          21    and the -- I'm not sure if that would be the
          22    northwest, Chad?  Around the cul-de-sac.
          23                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  That would be
          24    the northwest side, yes.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  That a



                                                                        76
           1    mound be placed in that area to augment the
           2    existing land -- the proposed landscaping.  That's
           3    our only recommendation for a conditional use.
           4                         MR. McHALE:  And I think as a
           5    part of that berm, you all had mentioned about the
           6    additional landscaping on the returns --
           7                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Right.
           8                         MR. McHALE:  -- as long as it
           9    didn't encroach into clear sight triangles.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Correct.  Okay
          11    that's our recommendation.
          12                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Excellent.
          13                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And, obviously,
          14    compliance with all other zoning regulations to the
          15    township.
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Obviously.
          17                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  So is that a
          18    recommendation?
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Yes.  Do you
          20    want a motion for that?
          21                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Yeah, it would
          22    help.  This is for the conditional use.
          23                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Right.  This is
          24    for the conditional use application.  The planning
          25    commission is recommending that a buffer be placed



                                                                        77
           1    along the north -- I'm sorry, the western and
           2    northwestern edges of the parking lot and
           3    cul-de-sac to augment the proposed landscaping.
           4    And that all other zoning and land development
           5    issues be complied with according to the township
           6    regulations, and extend the landscaping around the
           7    parking area as discussed.
           8                         Do I have a motion?
           9                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  I make that
          10    motion.
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Have a motion.
          12                         Do I have a second to the
          13    motion?
          14                         MS. RINEHIMER:  I'll second.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          16    second.
          17                         All those in favor please say
          18    aye.
          19                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Aye.
          20                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          21                         MS. RINEHIMER:  Aye.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          23                         And I'll entertain a motion to
          24    table the preliminary final land development plan
          25    for Arrowhead Lakes Community lodge.



                                                                        78
           1                         MR. MILLER:  So moved.
           2                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Second.
           3                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
           4    second.
           5                         All those in favor please say
           6    aye.
           7                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  Aye.
           8                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
           9                         MS. RINEHIMER:  Aye.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          11                         MR. CHAD LELLO:  Thank you very
          12    much.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Do we have
          14    anything else before the board tonight?
          15                         MRS. LAMBERTON:  I don't --
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  We're adjourned
          17    then.
          18                         (Hearing concluded at 8:13 p.m.)
          19                                ---
          20
          21
          22
          23
          24
          25



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           7                         I hereby certify that the
           8    proceedings and evidence are contained fully and
           9    accurately, in the notes taken by me at the hearing
          10    in the above matter; and that the foregoing is a
          11    true and correct transcript of the same.
          12
          13
          14
          15                            JOSEPHINE HOLLMAN, C.R.
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