Before
                     THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION
                                            ---

                In Re:  Regular Business Meeting

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                   Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
                                       State Avenue
                           Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
                   Thursday, October 4, 2007, beginning at 7 p.m.
                                            ---
                PRESENT:     MARK SINCAVAGE, Chairperson
                             JOSEPH MILLER, Vice-Chairperson
                             ROBERT BAXTER, Board Member
                             TED VANDERVLIET, Board Member
                             ROBERT McHALE, P.E.,
                             Township Engineer
                             PATRICK ARMSTRONG, ESQUIRE, Solicitor
                ALSO PRESENT:    PHYLLIS HAASE, Zoning Officer

                                            ---






                                     Panko Reporting
                              537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
                            Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
                                     (570) 421-3620



                                                                        2
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'll call the
           2    regularly scheduled meeting of the Tobyhanna
           3    Planning Commission, Thursday, October 4, 2007, to
           4    order.
           5                         Our first order of business will
           6    be approval of the September 6, 2007 minutes which
           7    we all received electronically.
           8                         MR. BAXTER:  Move we accept the
           9    minutes.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion.  Do I
          11    have a second to the motion?
          12                         MR. MILLER:  Second.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          14    second.  All those in favor please say aye.
          15                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          16                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          17                         MR. VANDERVLIET: Aye.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          19                         Public comment?  Anything in
          20    general, not anything specific on the agenda.
          21                         I notice there are a couple of
          22    people that are not usually here.  If you do speak,
          23    please state your name clearly.  The reporter may
          24    ask you to spell it.  Also state where you're from.
          25    Thank you.



                                                                        3
           1                         I'm announcing that we are going
           2    to have a work session meeting on October 23, 2007
           3    at 5 o'clock here at the township.  The work
           4    session will be to discuss the proposed EV
           5    designation letter of support and the second one
           6    would be to discuss the Act 167 Stormwater
           7    Management Plan for the McMichaels Brodhead
           8    Watershed.
           9                         MR. McHALE:  Yes.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Also I'll
          11    announce that we have rescheduled our November
          12    meeting to November 8th at 7 o'clock here.
          13                         Our first order of business is
          14    Shikhman.  Do you see Sarah?  Is Sarah expected
          15    tonight?
          16                         MR. McHALE:  I don't know.  I
          17    think we can proceed.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Shall we
          19    proceed?  You don't want to wait a little while?
          20                         MR. McHALE:  You can, if you
          21    want.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  We'll wait a
          23    little bit for Sarah.
          24                         We'll move on to the Blakeslee
          25    minor subdivision.  Anyone here representing them?



                                                                        4
           1    We'll hold that one too.
           2                         Pyramid.
           3                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  I spoke with
           4    Mike Grab this afternoon.  He requested we table.
           5    Just a couple more informational things that the
           6    applicant has to submit, some changes to the
           7    proposed easement.
           8                         MR. BAXTER:  I move we table the
           9    Pyramid Network Service's final land development
          10    plan.
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I have a motion.
          12    Do I have a second to the motion?
          13                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Second.
          14                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          15    second.  All those in favor please say aye.
          16                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          17                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          18                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          20                         Next one is Maguire minor
          21    subdivision.
          22                         MR. MARV WALTON:  Marv Walton
          23    from Niclaus Engineering.  Also Chris Maguire is
          24    here, who has an agreement of sale on the property.
          25                         This plan was before you last



                                                                        5
           1    month.  It was tabled.  We received a comment
           2    letter from Bob and unless something's come up
           3    between now and then, I think we have everything
           4    resolved.  I look to Bob to expound further if he
           5    wishes to.
           6                         MR. McHALE:  No.
           7                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  It looks like
           8    the applicant is requesting waivers from SALDO
           9    Section 135-15.A, Subsection 15; and SALDO Section
          10    135-17, Subsections L and M.
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Any member have
          12    any questions?  Comments?  I'll entertain a motion
          13    to approve the proposed minor subdivision for lands
          14    of Chris Maguire, equitable owner, and suggest
          15    recommendation of waiver to SALDO Section
          16    135-15.A.15 and SALDO Section 135-17.L and M.
          17                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  So moved.
          18                         MR. BAXTER:  Second.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          20    second.  All those in favor please say aye.
          21                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          22                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          23                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          24                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          25                         MR. MARV WALTON:  Was that



                                                                        6
           1    action on the plan also or just an action on the
           2    waivers?
           3                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  What was just
           4    done, they recommended approval of the plan with
           5    the waivers.
           6                         MR. MARV WALTON:  With the
           7    waivers?
           8                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Pursuant to the
           9    September 24, 2007 letter of the township engineer.
          10                         MR. MARV WALTON:  Very good.
          11    Thank you for your time.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Sarah, are you
          13    ready?
          14                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Yes.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  We skipped over
          16    you.  So we'll do Shikhman.
          17                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Thank
          18    you.
          19                         I believe that we met all of the
          20    requirements.  We did get a traffic study.  It does
          21    recommend a left turn lane on 940.  We will be
          22    dealing with PennDOT on that issue.  We did widen
          23    this to 26 feet and we put in two foot wide gravel
          24    on each side.  I did get a copy of the memo from
          25    Guardian today saying that they didn't have any



                                                                        7
           1    problems.  We have resubmitted to the conservation
           2    district and we have already submitted to PennDOT.
           3                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  There is
           4    language from Guardian that should be put on the
           5    plan, according to this memo.
           6                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Yes.
           7    That was already done.  It's on the last note on
           8    C-2.  You did get new plans yesterday.
           9                         MR. McHALE:  That was some
          10    additional language that Bill Weber had asked for,
          11    Sarah, and you did put that on the drawing.  Today
          12    we also received a letter from Guardian which we'll
          13    give you a copy of.
          14                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  I have a
          15    copy of it.
          16                         MR. McHALE:  He asked for some
          17    additional language.
          18                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  He did?
          19                         MR. McHALE:  Yes.  He said
          20    approval should carry stipulations to require
          21    that -- he added some extra language.  If you put
          22    that information on the drawing before it goes to
          23    the board of supervisors, that should be
          24    acceptable.
          25                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Which



                                                                        8
           1    plan --
           2                         MR. McHALE:  Towards the bottom.
           3    Right above the --
           4                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Oh, this
           5    planning gauge.  Okay.  I can add that.  I'll add
           6    that to the same note.
           7                         Does anybody have any questions?
           8    You also did get the review letter from the county
           9    planning commission.
          10                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Did you want to
          11    just let the commission know which waivers you're
          12    requesting?  I know it says in the review letter,
          13    but it looks like the applicant is requesting
          14    waivers from SALDO Section 135-12.D.3, SALDO
          15    Section 135, Section 15.A.15.
          16                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Yes.
          17                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And SALDO
          18    Section 135-17, Subsection L and M.
          19                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Yes.
          20                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  I'm sorry, did
          21    you request those?
          22                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  No we
          23    didn't, because we show the 500 feet.
          24                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  So you're not
          25    requesting waivers from SALDO Section 135-17 --



                                                                        9
           1                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  No.
           2                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  The applicant is
           3    not requesting waivers from SALDO Section 135,
           4    Section 17, Subsections L and M.
           5                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Yes.  We
           6    show the 500 feet along the road.
           7                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  There are some
           8    additional waivers.  You want to take us through
           9    those?
          10                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  I don't
          11    have my waiver letter in front of me.  I have got
          12    an inch thick correspondence file.
          13                         Which letter are you looking at?
          14                         MR. McHALE:  We got it here.
          15                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Okay.
          16                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.  I was
          17    looking at a previous review letter.  It appears
          18    the applicant is actually not requesting any
          19    waivers, is that correct?
          20                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Actually
          21    that may be -- I thought we met everything.
          22                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Yes.  There are
          23    no waivers being requested.  Please let the record
          24    reflect that the applicant is not requesting any
          25    waivers and no waivers need to be recommended for



                                                                        10
           1    approval tonight.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'll entertain a
           3    motion to approve the land development plan and lot
           4    consolidation plan of Isaac and Sophie Shikhman,
           5    subject to the township's engineer review letter of
           6    September 24th, 2007 and the additional language
           7    requested by Guardian Inspection Service dated 4,
           8    October, 2007.
           9                         MR. BAXTER:  So moved.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion.  Second
          11    to the motion?
          12                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Second.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  All those in
          14    favor please say aye.
          15                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          16                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          17                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          19                         Finally, Sarah, you did it.
          20                         MS. SARAH BUE-MORRIS:  Only two
          21    years.  Thank you.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Anyone here from
          23    Blakeslee?  We'll move on to Creek View.
          24                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Charlie
          25    Unangst with Hanover Engineering.  We were here



                                                                        11
           1    last month.  If you'd like, I can put a plan up on
           2    the board, but basically a couple months ago we
           3    were here trying to subdivide the parcel into two
           4    pieces.  It's a 136-acre parcel.  Last month we
           5    came back looking to subdivide it into three.  We
           6    made some revisions to the plans.  We submitted
           7    them to the township.  We received Mr. McHale's
           8    review letter dated the 27th.  We have made
           9    additional revisions and resubmitted yesterday for
          10    Mr. McHale to provide a comment on the review
          11    letter.  And if you'd like, I'll go over every
          12    individual comment.  If someone wants to chime in,
          13    go ahead, if not then we would like to go over the
          14    waivers and ask you to act on the waivers and we'd
          15    like to request conditional approval.
          16                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Just so the
          17    planning commission is clear, you're going to go
          18    over the September 27, 2007 review letter?
          19                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Correct.
          20                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And the last
          21    revised September 13th, 2007 request for waivers?
          22                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  That is
          23    correct.
          24                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I think we'll



                                                                        12
           1    ask you to put up a plan.  You have to go through
           2    these one at a time.  Also, for the record, the
           3    declaration of covenants was submitted to
           4    applicant's counsel and we are awaiting word from
           5    him.
           6                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  I have not heard
           7    back from Mr. Weiner.  The only real changes from
           8    the prior declaration --
           9                         MR. BERARDI:  I reviewed it.
          10                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  It was basically
          11    the addition of Lot 3.
          12                         MR. BERARDI:  It was accepted
          13    with just one area of discussion, which we
          14    discussed at the last meeting, and I'm just not
          15    sure what the answer was.  Charlie, you have that?
          16                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Sure.
          17                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  I think we have
          18    Pennsylvania DEP and you wanted --
          19                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  No.  You
          20    have PennDOT.  We wanted to expand it to the Army
          21    Corp and DEP in with that.  If any of them say we
          22    can't touch this wetland, you have room to move the
          23    driveway to the north, move it to the north.  It's
          24    just cooperation with the township; with that
          25    understanding.  You put the note in with PennDOT.



                                                                        13
           1                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  I understand
           2    that.  I think what you just said, I don't know if
           3    we would be okay with, because you said if any of
           4    them have a problem with it.  I think the way the
           5    declaration reads is --
           6                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  I guess
           7    what our concern is if someone says we are not
           8    going to give you a permit for that location
           9    because of this, we are stuck then.  All we are
          10    doing is asking for -- the way the note is written,
          11    it's just we both agree that we are going to
          12    work -- try to work something out.  It's not
          13    promising anything.  It's just stating that we'll
          14    cooperate with each other to work --
          15                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  We are talking
          16    about paragraph 4, page 2?
          17                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Yes.
          18                         MR. McHALE:  But we also might
          19    run into some resistance if some of the wetlands
          20    need to be impacted and PennDOT is saying this is
          21    the best location, and the township is saying this
          22    is the best location, that we need to work through
          23    that.  We can't just simply say that the DEP says
          24    we don't like it there.
          25                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  No.  No. I



                                                                        14
           1    think where it says that we'll cooperate to -- and
           2    that's all we want because it may take then a
           3    letter from the township to say, listen, this is
           4    what you really want.  Can you look favorable upon
           5    them?
           6                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  What's important
           7    is that the last section of that sentence, which
           8    says -- which is the owner and the township shall
           9    cooperate in relocating the proposed future
          10    driveway if there is a problem with PennDOT
          11    regulations.
          12                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  We are not
          13    opposed to the note.
          14                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  You want to add
          15    DEP and Army Corp of Engineers; and/or.
          16                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  And/or.
          17    And the reason we are saying that is, we have a
          18    number of projects in the works right now that DEP
          19    is not only just saying -- reviewing the plans and
          20    saying how like -- you used to address things and
          21    send it up and they'd accept it and review it and
          22    make some comments.  They are now telling us to
          23    redesign because certain people -- it depends who
          24    you send it to.  They literally say, no, no, you
          25    should redesign this and move things and we are



                                                                        15
           1    stuck on a number of jobs because, you know, they
           2    send some up from Northampton County, one reviews
           3    it.  They like it this way.  They send it to Lehigh
           4    County or Monroe or somebody else and we are stuck.
           5                         MR. BERARDI:  We are not opposed
           6    to this but the township has the influence to
           7    change their thinking and we are back to where we
           8    were, that's fine.  Just that for us to deal with
           9    that becomes very difficult.
          10                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  We can go
          11    round and round.  That's really the only change
          12    that I'm aware of.
          13                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  That's the only
          14    request you have?
          15                         MR. BERARDI:  Yes.
          16                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  What I will do,
          17    and I'll get with Bob and -- it's a matter of
          18    making the language work for both you and the
          19    township.  We'll do that and I'll send it out to
          20    Mr. Weiner and make sure.  But everything else in
          21    the declaration you're okay with?
          22                         MR. BERARDI:  Yes.
          23                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.
          24                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Bob, I
          25    don't know, would you like me to just go through



                                                                        16
           1    all the comments from before or have you looked at
           2    them to eliminate some of them?
           3                         MR. McHALE:  Yes.  Everything is
           4    in pretty good order as far as notes were added to
           5    the plans, the revised DEP planning module mailer
           6    was submitted to us, which was forwarded to our
           7    sewage enforcement officer.  But everything is in
           8    order to provide a recommendation tonight for
           9    approval.
          10                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Also,
          11    there are a number of waivers per our September
          12    13th letter of waiver requests.  And we have gone
          13    over some of those, and, basically, what they are
          14    for is the fact that we are not proposing any
          15    development at this time and these are referencing
          16    future development.  So we realize and we noted
          17    that it is only for this plan.  Any piece of this
          18    land coming back in front of you, these waivers are
          19    off the table for that piece of land.  It's a brand
          20    new plan.  And for utilities and everything else,
          21    these waivers are no longer enforceable or
          22    whatever.
          23                         MR. McHALE:  The plan references
          24    the declaration of covenants.  And the declaration
          25    of covenants refers back to those waivers that are



                                                                        17
           1    stipulated on the plans.
           2                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  We have
           3    the waivers noted and the note about the covenants.
           4    This is the same three lots we brought in last
           5    time.  There will be a common driveway.  One of the
           6    concerns or one of the comments were maintenance
           7    for that.  At this time we are saying three equal
           8    parts.  We have no idea who's going in and what is
           9    happening there.  So at this point, if there is a
          10    road constructed back through there and it cost 100
          11    bucks to plow it, 30 bucks, you each pay 10 bucks.
          12    Right now it's set up three equal shares towards
          13    the maintenance of that driveway.
          14                         MR. McHALE:  You've added a note
          15    to that effect?  If you want to point that out.
          16                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Yes.
          17    Right here.  Responsible equal shares for
          18    maintenance cost or improvements.
          19                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Does the
          20    commission want to go through each waiver or do we
          21    want to accept the letter of recommendation per
          22    Bob?
          23                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  You've addressed
          24    all the outstanding issues that were outlined in
          25    Bob's September 27th letter?



                                                                        18
           1                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  We've
           2    addressed the majority of them.  Some of them are
           3    upon recommendation of the supervisors, we submit a
           4    CD of --
           5                         MR. McHALE:  Right and
           6    signatures.
           7                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  No
           8    problem.  We will submit to the township a signed
           9    and sealed plan of this prior to going to the board
          10    of supervisors.  We have no problem with that.  We
          11    just -- I don't like having a lot of signed and
          12    sealed plans out there until we are pretty close to
          13    having them complete.  We'll gladly submit that.
          14    We have no problem with any of these.  We've
          15    addressed, I would say, all but probably 2 or 3 and
          16    now it's 2.
          17                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  You will be
          18    complying with all the --
          19                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Yes, we
          20    will.
          21                         MR. McHALE:  Anything related to
          22    adding notes and modifications to the declaration
          23    of covenants and any notes added to the plan, all
          24    that has been covered.  The only thing that's
          25    outstanding is some signatures and CD electronic



                                                                        19
           1    drawings.
           2                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Correct.
           3                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  If you want,
           4    does the commission want to go through the request
           5    for waivers dated September 13th, 2007?
           6                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  We've been over
           7    these.  Are we all okay?
           8                         MR. McHALE:  And they are listed
           9    on the drawing as well.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  We are granting
          11    these waivers because there is no buildings
          12    proposed at this time.  It's simply to facilitate
          13    the subdivision of the land.
          14                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Correct.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'll entertain a
          16    motion to approve the Creek View Estates minor
          17    subdivision, subject to the declaration of
          18    covenants being submitted for review by the
          19    township solicitor and executed by the applicant
          20    and recorded in the Monroe County Courthouse; also
          21    recommend approval subject to the township
          22    engineer's letter dated September 27th, 2007; and
          23    we recommend approval subject to the waivers on
          24    Hanover Engineering Associates' letter last revised
          25    September 13th, 2007, specifically Section



                                                                        20
           1    135-15.A.15, Section 135-15.A.25, Section
           2    135-15.A.27, Section 135-17.L, Section 135-17.M,
           3    Section 135-17.U, Section 135-17.V, Section
           4    135-18.B.13; and also a waiver to the Tobyhanna
           5    Township Stormwater Management Ordinance, Chapter
           6    124.  Did I get everything?
           7                         Do I have a motion?
           8                         MR. MILLER:  I'll make the
           9    motion.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I have a motion.
          11    Do I have a second to the motion?
          12                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Second.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          14    second.  Any further discussion?
          15                         All those in favor please say
          16    aye.
          17                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          18                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          19                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          20                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          21                         MR. BERARDI:  Thank you very
          22    much.
          23                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Have you sent a
          24    petition in for the board of supervisors for a
          25    zoning change?



                                                                        21
           1                         MR. CHARLES UNANGST:  Yes.
           2                         MR. BERARDI:  We are going to
           3    have a workshop discussion prior to that.  That's
           4    the step we want to take.  Thank you.
           5                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Blakeslee minor
           6    subdivision.  Anyone here representing Blakeslee?
           7    Are they not expected?
           8                         I'll entertain a motion to table
           9    the Blakeslee minor subdivision.
          10                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  So moved.
          11                         MR. MILLER:  Second.
          12                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  All those in
          13    favor please say aye.
          14                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          15                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          16                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          17                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.  We have to
          18    go through our list of projects.
          19                         I'll entertain a motion to table
          20    Wee Wons Daycare expansion land development plan.
          21                         MR. BAXTER:  So moved.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Anyone here?
          23                         No one here.  I have a motion.
          24    Do I have a second to the motion?
          25                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Second.



                                                                        22
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  All those in
           2    favor please say aye.
           3                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
           4                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
           5                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
           6                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
           7                         Locust Ridge Quarry Contractors
           8    Shop.  Anyone here representing Locust Ridge?  I'll
           9    entertain a motion to table the preliminary land
          10    development plan for Locust Ridge Quarry.
          11                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  So moved.
          12                         MR. BAXTER:  Second.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  All those in
          14    favor please say aye.
          15                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          16                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          17                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          19                         Glorious Church land development
          20    plan.  Anyone here representing Glorious Church?
          21    I'll entertain a motion to table Glorious Church
          22    land development plan.
          23                         MR. BAXTER:  So moved.
          24                         MR. MILLER:  Second.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and



                                                                        23
           1    second.  All those in favor please say aye.
           2                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
           3                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
           4                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
           5                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
           6                         I'll entertain a motion to table
           7    Glorious Church conditional use application.
           8                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  So moved.
           9                         MR. BAXTER:  Second.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          11    seconded.  All those in favor please say aye.
          12                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          13                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          14                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          15                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          16                         Lands of Elaine Brockett.
          17    Anyone here representing Elaine Brockett?  I'll
          18    entertain a motion to table the lands of Elaine
          19    Brockett final land development.
          20                         MR. MILLER:  So moved.
          21                         MR. BAXTER:  Second.
          22                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  All those in
          23    favor please say aye.
          24                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          25                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.



                                                                        24
           1                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
           2                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
           3                         Omnipoint Communications, T
           4    Mobile land development plan?
           5                         Is that the same thing as
           6    Pyramid or are they separate?
           7                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  They are two
           8    separate plans.  Omnipoint T Mobile is a
           9    collocation.  Pyramid Network Services is I believe
          10    a --
          11                         MR. McHALE:  Sign
          12    communications.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Anyone here
          14    representing Omni Point?
          15                         I'll entertain a motion to table
          16    the Omnipoint Communications T Mobile preliminary
          17    final land development plan.
          18                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  So moved.
          19                         MR. BAXTER:  Second.
          20                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  All those in
          21    favor please say aye.
          22                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          23                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          24                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          25                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.



                                                                        25
           1                         E and T Realty, Brick City.
           2    Anything on that, Bob?
           3                         MR. McHALE:  They are in the
           4    process of making changes.  They are not going to
           5    be here.
           6                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'll entertain a
           7    motion to table E and T Realty, also known as Brick
           8    City minor subdivision plan.
           9                         MR. BAXTER:  So moved.
          10                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Second.
          11                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
          12    second.  All those in favor please say aye.
          13                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
          14                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
          15                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          17                         Next item on our agenda is Kush
          18    and Sunny, LLC sketch plan.  I'm going to be
          19    commenting on this plan so I'm going to recuse
          20    myself from the board.  I'll turn it over to Joe.
          21                         MR. BAXTER:  I will be too.
          22                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  My
          23    name is Chris McDermott.  I'm with Reilly
          24    Associates.  We prepared the sketch plan for Kush
          25    and Sunny, LLC.



                                                                        26
           1                         On that plan the developer's
           2    proposing to develop a lot located at the corner of
           3    Route 940 and Hemlock Road for an office and bank
           4    combo.  Now, you probably -- most of you are
           5    familiar with this location.  It is directly across
           6    the street from the Moose Crossing Storage
           7    Facility.  This is currently an undeveloped lot.
           8    There are wetlands located on the southwestern
           9    portion.  There are actually two lots.  A lot which
          10    fronts Route 940 and the lot running Hemlock.
          11                         We'll be proposing to join those
          12    two lots together to create a four-acre piece of
          13    land.  Within that we'll be constructing two access
          14    driveways, one off of Route 940, one off of Hemlock
          15    Road.  They will be to service the single building.
          16    This building will have a multiple use.  It will be
          17    a two story building approximately 60 feet wide by
          18    200 foot long.  There will be a bank located in the
          19    front.
          20                         The lower level is bifurcated or
          21    open to create an access aisle for a drive-through
          22    service lane for the bank.  The upper floor will be
          23    one continuous floor which will provide office
          24    space.  The total square footage will be
          25    approximately 2400 hundred or -- sorry.  Let me get



                                                                        27
           1    that right.  24,300.  7,000 square feet will be
           2    provided in the front portion.  Approximately 2100
           3    square feet right over the drive-through lanes and
           4    the remaining 13,000 to the south of it.
           5                         We will service the property by
           6    the connection to the municipal sewage collection
           7    system which is located on 940.  An on-lot well
           8    would provide water.  Stormwater control areas have
           9    been reserved to the east and to the south --
          10    southern portion of the property.  Discharge from
          11    those basins would go to the wetland area, which is
          12    located to the southwest.
          13                         We brought this plan before the
          14    commission to get any comments that they may have
          15    on it.  There is one particular area that we'd ask
          16    you to comment or get some direction on and that is
          17    along Hemlock Road we provided a 25 foot landscaped
          18    buffer.  Let me point that out on our plan; in this
          19    location.  The reason we've done that is there was
          20    a section within your subdivision and land
          21    development ordinance that requires a landscaped
          22    buffer be provided when you're proposing a
          23    commercial use that would adjoin a residential
          24    area.  We've shown that on this plan and respected
          25    it, but we wanted to discuss that to find out what



                                                                        28
           1    your interpretation of a residential area is.
           2                         If you note, the C District is
           3    located along Route 940, and this entire lot is in
           4    the C District where banks and office buildings are
           5    permitted.  This lot, which is this entire area, is
           6    split zoned.  Along 940 is the C Zone; along
           7    Hemlock, in the lower portion, is the R-District.
           8    We've shaded that.  There is a bank on this
           9    location.  The bank parking lot does infringe upon
          10    the R-1 Zone and there is a detention basin located
          11    in the rear which services the bank.  That basin,
          12    in fact, discharges to a pipe which in turn goes
          13    onto this property.  It's a commercially used piece
          14    of property.  The commercial use appears to extend
          15    into the R-1 District.  There does not appear to be
          16    enough area to subdivide, which in the R-1 Zone I
          17    believe you have a one acre minimum for a
          18    residential lot.  There is not sufficient area
          19    within this lot to subdivide that off to create a
          20    residential property.  So in terms of use, this
          21    appears to be a commercially used piece of
          22    property.
          23                         Now, we've provided that buffer
          24    because we saw that requirement in the ordinance.
          25    However --



                                                                        29
           1                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Do you know the
           2    section of that?
           3                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  Yes,
           4    135.  You are under commercial and industrial,
           5    under Landscaping 1.
           6                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.
           7                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  If
           8    we could move closer to the road, what that would
           9    allow us to do is shift some of our parking lower
          10    to the roadside and create more of a buffer
          11    adjacent to the wetland.  And given the current
          12    guidelines established by DEP, that the wider the
          13    buffer you could provide, the better.  And since
          14    that would work well from an environmental
          15    standpoint, what I'm really asking you is, is this
          16    considered a residential area?  It doesn't say
          17    residential zone.  It doesn't say residential use.
          18    It says residential area, I believe.
          19                         MR. McHALE:  I would say that is
          20    a residential area and that the buffer should
          21    extend along that eastern portion of the property
          22    as well as the southern portion where there should
          23    be a 25 foot buffer, but it doesn't appear on the
          24    sketch plan.  I think there is a detention basin
          25    shown on that area, so that it would be my opinion



                                                                        30
           1    that it would extend along both sides of the
           2    property.  At some point in time that could be
           3    utilized, but the way it's zoned is what would
           4    dictate for the most part, because it could be
           5    utilized as a residential.  They could split that
           6    into two lots at some point in time, commercial
           7    district separate from the residential.
           8                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  And
           9    that's exactly what I was thinking, maybe they can
          10    split this lot.
          11                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  I think your
          12    first assumption is correct.
          13                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  But
          14    I don't think they have enough area to split that
          15    lot.  In other words, there isn't a one-acre area
          16    left on this lot to split it off.
          17                         MR. McHALE:  Well, the use
          18    that's there on the commercial district may not
          19    always be there.  The split could occur at the
          20    zoning district.
          21                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  Are
          22    there any other concerns or comments that the
          23    planning commission may have?
          24                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I had a question
          25    about Hemlock Drive.  I don't know if anybody in



                                                                        31
           1    the audience here has any comments.
           2                         MS. DIANE LAKE:  My name is
           3    Diane Lake.  I live on Hemlock Road in Old Farm
           4    Estates and that is definitely one of the issues
           5    that I was prepared to speak about, is the access
           6    on Hemlock Road.  My understanding is that Hemlock
           7    Road is a private road and that to have commercial
           8    access to it adds more traffic to our road.  As it
           9    is, we do have people who cut through from 115,
          10    through our development, to get to 940 to avoid the
          11    light, even though we have our speed bumps.  This
          12    would mean more traffic through our community and
          13    we pay for maintenance of our road.  That would be
          14    part of that road also.
          15                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
          16    You're on Hemlock?
          17                         MS. DIANE LAKE:  Yes.  I'm on
          18    Hemlock, the same side of the street that you're
          19    talking about putting --
          20                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
          21    We'll look into the status of the road and the
          22    rights that this property owner has to access that
          23    road.  They do have frontage, but, certainly, I'll
          24    ask my client to look into his particular rights
          25    for use of that road.



                                                                        32
           1                         MS. DIANE LAKE:  Also, that
           2    corner is a bus stop and a lot of children get on
           3    and off buses there, all day long, morning, noon
           4    and afternoon.
           5                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Where is the bus
           6    stop?
           7                         MS. DIANE LAKE:  The bus stop is
           8    right there at Palmerton Bank.  Sometimes the bus
           9    drops off the -- I guess the north side of 940.
          10    Then of course they pick up on our side, but they
          11    pick up children for a few different schools in the
          12    morning, then they have the Kindergartners at noon
          13    time and then we have different times in the
          14    afternoon that right there, between us and
          15    Greenwood, the bus stops and let's children off on
          16    both sides.
          17                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
          18    Right at the intersection?
          19                         MS. DIANE LAKE:  Right there,
          20    yes.  Thank you.
          21                         MR. ANDREW LAKE:  I live with my
          22    mother in the same exact place.  My question I had
          23    for you is, you talked about drainage from the
          24    property itself.
          25                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  Yes.



                                                                        33
           1                         MR. ANDREW LAKE:  We need a
           2    better explanation to us about what you're going to
           3    do, because it is very wet as it is.  Even a
           4    smaller rain storm our backyards already fill up.
           5    I want to make sure that's not going to add to it.
           6                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  The
           7    township requirement will require us to limit the
           8    rate of runoff from the property.  In addition to
           9    that, the state requirements will require us to
          10    limit the volume or really tell us we cannot
          11    increase the volume of runoff on a two-year storm.
          12    So we are going to have to do a few things.  We are
          13    going to do volume control and rate control.
          14                         Conceptually, our ideas are to
          15    gather stormwater in the area adjacent to the
          16    wetland.  This development will likely be elevated
          17    above the existing ground, because I believe the
          18    groundwater table is close to the surface.  We will
          19    infiltrate what increases we have into the ground,
          20    where the ground will permit that.  Both areas
          21    shown on the plan and also any area that is located
          22    underneath the parking lot, we will have to utilize
          23    for subsurface infiltration and possibly subsurface
          24    detention.  So a large portion of this development
          25    would likely be elevated above the existing ground



                                                                        34
           1    level.
           2                         So, essentially, what you're
           3    doing is really trying to capture that rainwater
           4    that falls on the surface, swing it underneath, and
           5    reintroduce it to the ground.
           6                         MS. DINA LAKE:  I have a
           7    question.  My name is Dina Lake.  I also live at
           8    that residence.  You're proposing a bank.  It's
           9    also going to be business offices.  Is there an
          10    idea of what kind of business it is and what hours
          11    of the day they will be open, as far as traffic and
          12    noise in that area?
          13                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  What
          14    we would presume would happen now would be either
          15    business offices or perhaps maybe medical, like a
          16    dentist office or something like that.  But there
          17    have been no specific uses identified other than
          18    the bank.
          19                         MS. DINA LAKE:  No food places,
          20    restaurants?
          21                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  We
          22    are not proposing to do that.
          23                         MS. DINA LAKE:  How far back
          24    from 940 to the furthest point back of the trees
          25    are you going to be, just so we can have an idea



                                                                        35
           1    for where the trees are going to be cut down to?
           2                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  From
           3    940.
           4                         MS. DINA LAKE:  From 940 going
           5    back towards Hemlock, towards our house pretty
           6    much?
           7                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  You can come up
           8    and look at the plans.
           9                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
          10    Probably with the construction of this, wood
          11    cutting would extend almost the entire depth of
          12    those lots from 940.
          13                         MS. DINA LAKE:  Where is the
          14    residential, John and Chris's house?
          15                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  This
          16    is residential.  So it would be approximately 70
          17    feet between the lot line and the parking lot.
          18                         MS. DINA LAKE:  This is the
          19    speed bump here.  So you're going to clear past the
          20    speed bump?
          21                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  It
          22    depends on how much clearing is required for
          23    stormwater area.
          24                         MS. DINA LAKE:  The building
          25    will go this way.  People will be coming off.



                                                                        36
           1                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
           2    Well, the most likely path of travel will be
           3    entering into, you know -- if you're coming north
           4    bound on 115, you would likely come into this,
           5    circulate through and either exit back out this way
           6    or exit onto Hemlock to the proposed intersection.
           7                         MS. DINA LAKE:  Just so the
           8    board knows, many children ride their bikes back
           9    and forth on this road here into Greenwood Acres,
          10    into our development.  Kids are back and forth very
          11    often.  Right now this is all trees, all trees
          12    except the bank.  This is very secluded.  Nobody
          13    comes back here unless you live here or you are
          14    going to cut through.  But the speed bump, this is
          15    far back.  And if they are going to clear the trees
          16    all the way back to this far, that's going to be
          17    substantially infringing on the residential area.
          18    So just consider that when you're thinking about
          19    this access.  That's what we'd like you to think
          20    about.
          21                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Shouldn't we
          22    be getting something on the ownership of that road.
          23                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  You will go back
          24    and find out from your client what if any rights he
          25    has to that private --



                                                                        37
           1                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  When
           2    we come with the land development plan we'll have
           3    that.
           4                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Is there a
           5    reason why you don't just want that one access
           6    point from 940?
           7                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  It's
           8    often better to utilize an existing intersection,
           9    so that we don't create -- so we try to minimize
          10    conflict between these two, so that would somewhat
          11    distribute the traffic.  Also it creates a nice
          12    flow through the site.
          13                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  It's a
          14    commercial site.  It would be better if you had two
          15    entrances from 940.  In the same vein, on the
          16    drainage, you're going to show topo on there and
          17    then attest to it on the as-built as to how the
          18    flow is going to run so it doesn't go in their back
          19    yards.
          20                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
          21    We'll do the drainage in accordance with the
          22    ordinance.  So we'll absolutely show the topo.  We
          23    will absolutely provide all the testing
          24    information.  We'll absolutely provide it to your
          25    engineer for his review.



                                                                        38
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Mark Sincavage,
           2    President of SIDE Corporation.  We have ownership
           3    of those roadways and the previous speakers did
           4    mention that as owners of that road, we do charge
           5    the residence of Old Farm a maintenance fee for
           6    those roads.  This lot was sold previous to us --
           7    to SIDE Corporation acquiring the property, so I'm
           8    not familiar with what's in the deed.  I mentioned
           9    this to Chris earlier today when we spoke.  He's
          10    going to check out the deed to see what rights may
          11    be in that deed.  It was sold prior to us, so I'm
          12    not familiar with what was ever granted.
          13                         We have strenuously objected to
          14    any commercial access onto our road, as the
          15    planning commission is aware.  Specifically,
          16    Palmerton Bank, when they proposed their
          17    development, they also asked and we stringently
          18    opposed that.
          19                         Secondly was the car wash, which
          20    is on Chestnut.  They proposed an access road onto
          21    there and we objected to that and they did keep
          22    their road.  Their driveway's off our roadway.  So
          23    we will be objecting to any access onto Hemlock
          24    Road.
          25                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  I think that



                                                                        39
           1    the public would be served better if you have an
           2    ingress/egress on 940.
           3                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  This
           4    is the value of a sketch plan.
           5                         MR. McHALE:  It's likely you're
           6    only going to get one access off of 940.
           7                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  We
           8    won't propose multiple off of 940.  This is a
           9    proposed two-way.
          10                         MR. McHALE:  It appears that
          11    they have done a good job in keeping separation
          12    distances away from the intersection as far as they
          13    can, considering the wetlands that are on the
          14    property.
          15                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  It can be a
          16    two way, ingress/egress.
          17                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  Yes.
          18                         MR. McHALE:  What they may end
          19    up with is just a full access low-volume driveway
          20    off of 940.
          21                         MR. MARK SINCAVAGE:  Does that
          22    road align with Moose Crossing, Chris?
          23                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  Yes.
          24    The driveway -- we align the driveway directly
          25    across from Moose Crossing.  Thankfully, that



                                                                        40
           1    aligns with the wetland.
           2                         MS. DINA LAKE:  As a side note,
           3    we would appreciate any amount of extra buffer,
           4    obviously the tree line that's left, to keep the
           5    residential still residential from the commercial
           6    that is allowed.  I know you were mentioning how
           7    much you would have to leave or not, but as much as
           8    able to be left is appreciated because 70 feet is
           9    not a lot of distance between -- our house is right
          10    next to the house that's on the border there, so.
          11                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  If I can
          12    speak.  I'm Alexis Wilkinson.  I'm with Reilly
          13    Associates.  I was actually involved with the
          14    layout of this plan and I wanted to pose something
          15    to the residence there because I hear what your
          16    concern is.  I'm wondering whether -- ideally we
          17    have some conversation and ideally it's always
          18    better to have more than one egress/ingress for a
          19    parcel for a couple of reasons; for safety and it
          20    distributes the volume of cars that you're
          21    experiencing at any one entrance so you don't have
          22    these heavy influx of vehicles inundating one
          23    entrance.  But I notice that the concerns seem to
          24    be because the entrance is close to the residential
          25    area.



                                                                        41
           1                         Would there be less objection if
           2    the entrance was pushed closer to the intersection
           3    of 940, opposite the commercial area?  That was one
           4    of the things that we are proposing.  We thought we
           5    were actually doing more of a service by pushing it
           6    back so that it was more so an ingress/egress for
           7    the residents of that area.
           8                         MS. DINA LAKE:  I would say no
           9    because of the fact that when people go to leave,
          10    then they could come to the right then and go down
          11    in front of our house and come out and go that way
          12    to cut through to go down to 115 that way.  They
          13    may not always go left to go back to 940 that way.
          14    So you're going to increase the traffic down our
          15    road.  It is a very quiet, quiet, neighborhood.
          16    The only people that travel through there are the
          17    people that live there.  We are all on an acre plus
          18    lot, so there is not many of us to begin with.  And
          19    I would say no.  If you have an entrance on 940,
          20    when you gotta leave, you leave 940.  You make your
          21    left or your right.  But if you're going to leave
          22    on Hemlock Road, you could still make your right or
          23    left and then they are coming in front of our
          24    house.
          25                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  And if I



                                                                        42
           1    can just point out one last thing, I don't mean to
           2    play devil's advocate, but it should be pointed out
           3    that if a person's intent is to come down Hemlock,
           4    they're still going to do it whether they leave off
           5    of 940 because of the close proximity.  So we can
           6    do what we can to discourage it, but just be aware,
           7    if that's a person's intent, they will still use
           8    the access.
           9                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  Your
          10    input is valuable.  We'll have to go to PennDOT.
          11    PennDOT, like you, will tell us, we would rather
          12    you not do any entrance on 940 and entrance
          13    everything off of Hemlock.  So we can use your
          14    comments to help support our --
          15                         MR. ANDREW LAKE:  One other
          16    question I had for you is, the proposal for this
          17    lot is the undeveloped lot that's there, not the
          18    lot that has a current building, the lot that's
          19    there?
          20                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
          21    Correct.  This is adjacent to it.  The existing lot
          22    is closer to the Wawa.  It's directly across from
          23    the Moose Crossing.
          24                         If that's everything, I'd like
          25    to thank you for your input.  We will take the



                                                                        43
           1    appropriate items under consideration.
           2                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  You will check
           3    on the interest of the --
           4                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
           5    Absolutely.
           6                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  We'll move on to
           7    V & M Realty, also known as Nish Nick.  I'm not
           8    sure why this is back on here.
           9                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  I don't
          10    know either.  Hopefully I can explain that.  Alexis
          11    Wilkinson, also from Reilly Associates representing
          12    Nish Nick properties.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'm sorry,
          14    Alexis, before you continue, I have to go back over
          15    there again.
          16                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  You're recusing
          17    yourself again.
          18                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  So if I
          19    may, I think there might have been a bit of a
          20    misnomer as to sketch plan because, if I
          21    understand, there was a land development plan for
          22    this parcel already in front of the board.  I was
          23    not part of the original submission, but the basis
          24    of the sketch plan, which was submitted for your
          25    review back in September 26, was because the client



                                                                        44
           1    approached us with some site plan changes that he
           2    wanted to see happen.  So what we wanted to do is
           3    give you an opportunity to review those changes
           4    since it kind of caused a ripple effect across the
           5    site.
           6                         Just to give you a little bit of
           7    history of what you're seeing in front of you, what
           8    was presented in front of you, what essentially
           9    happened with this plan is that originally the
          10    building was further northwest, you might as well
          11    say closer to the swale, the top of the ditch.  It
          12    was only a 20 foot offset from that which was
          13    essentially 50 feet from the property line.  You
          14    will see on the plan that's in front of you, now
          15    the building has shifted and the offset was
          16    increased to 73 feet.  The reason for this was
          17    because the client expressed an interest of having
          18    the bays or that the -- it's a repair, truck repair
          19    shop proposed -- and he wanted to be able to have
          20    the drive-through access for the bays.  So
          21    essentially a car being serviced would come in
          22    here -- I mean a truck being serviced would come in
          23    through here and now would be able to exit through
          24    the rear of the building.  So there is adequate
          25    space now provided.  We provided a 40-foot cartway,



                                                                        45
           1    but 20 feet of that is still provided as a fire
           2    access.
           3                         What we did try to do, since we
           4    already had detailed stormwater management plans
           5    design done, was to maintain all of our existing
           6    stormwater management features.  So in order to do
           7    that, we made some adjustments for the increased
           8    impervious area.  I tried to demonstrate here, to
           9    simplify it and give you a quick synopses of what
          10    happened.  We widened this, but what we tried to do
          11    is, originally this was shown on your plan as a
          12    gravel area.  The good thing for us is,
          13    conservatively, when we did the stormwater
          14    management design, if you refer back to the report,
          15    we actually considered that area as pavement
          16    anyway, because we figured there might be a
          17    possibility that it would be paved at a later date.
          18    That later date came early.  Since this is going to
          19    be a space that is utilized frequently, we decided
          20    that it's best to be known as a paved area.  What
          21    we did do to try to balance things was there was an
          22    additional three-foot sliver of this cartway that
          23    didn't need to be there, so what is shown in green
          24    will become grass.  The remaining 40-foot swatch
          25    will be paved.



                                                                        46
           1                         In addition to that, what we did
           2    was this was originally all shown -- this whole
           3    area was shown as a gravel temporary secured
           4    parking space, parking area, which is fenced in to
           5    try to balance the site, and I'll talk about that a
           6    little bit better with the impervious.  So we did
           7    not alter this current stormwater management
           8    design.  We reduced this area of pave, so what's
           9    shown in green will now be grassed area.
          10                         In addition, some of the changes
          11    that the client also presented -- if you see right
          12    in this area, this is going to be office space.
          13    What is currently proposed as now that office space
          14    would include both a basement and a mezzanine area.
          15    Where the mezzanine area is is split between
          16    additional office space and storage area.  The
          17    basement area was added because it was opted to
          18    remove -- we used to have a water storage tank in
          19    this vicinity, and what we decided to do is to
          20    install sprinklers in accordance with NFPA
          21    standards, NFPA 13 standards.  And if you note, our
          22    note 28 addresses that they will be held to install
          23    fire protection per this code.
          24                         Because they increased the
          25    square footage of the building, not the footprint,



                                                                        47
           1    but because they added the basement and the office
           2    area, we revisited the parking requirement and
           3    therefore this is an additional impervious area
           4    that was added to add more parking spaces to
           5    accommodate.  We actually sized the number of
           6    parking spaces rather conservatively.  We took into
           7    account the additional -- it's a total of 4,410
           8    square feet, including the basement and the
           9    additional mezzanine area.  I know we don't -- I
          10    believe the ordinance says that it's only the
          11    office space that would run into this calculation,
          12    but to be conservative, we included the entire
          13    space.  So you will see, in the parking data table,
          14    the total building square footage was increased to
          15    22,010 square feet and we provided parking at the
          16    ratio of 1 to 300 parking spaces -- 1 to 400
          17    parking spaces in accordance with that.  We
          18    actually ended up with a net reduction of
          19    impervious by almost three thousand square feet,
          20    2,881, by eliminating these areas as paved areas.
          21                         That is essentially it.  I was
          22    wondering, since it was -- I don't know why it was
          23    labeled as a sketch plan, per se, but this is
          24    essentially the level of effort that we went
          25    through for the plan that's in front of you, land



                                                                        48
           1    development status.  So, I'm wondering, is there
           2    anything else that needs to be submitted in order
           3    for the board to make a motion?
           4                         MR. McHALE:  Well, you know,
           5    this is a sketch plan.  This is not a land
           6    development application.
           7                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  One was
           8    previously submitted.
           9                         MR. McHALE:  Correct.  So you
          10    would basically resubmit that entire set again with
          11    all these modifications that you're proposing.
          12                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  Okay.
          13    I'm also here to answer any questions of the
          14    changes.  It's also my understanding that our NPDES
          15    permit is like in the mill kind of thing.  I know
          16    Bob signed off that we were in accordance with the
          17    Act 167, so we are anticipating that permit
          18    shortly.
          19                         MR. MARK SINCAVAGE:  Bob, the
          20    previous land development plan was approved.
          21                         MR. McHALE:  Correct.
          22                         MR. MARK SINCAVAGE:  You were
          23    approved.
          24                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  Right,
          25    but we came for -- these were sort of major



                                                                        49
           1    changes, so I don't know at this stage what we
           2    needed to do in order to -- whether that still
           3    holds or do we need to come back before you.
           4                         MR. McHALE:  Well, they've
           5    eliminated the water storage tank; the lighting
           6    plan changes; the grading plan changes; everything
           7    except to where the perimeter of the parking lot
           8    changes.  So if they take that set of drawings and
           9    update it, they have all the notes and everything,
          10    pretty much it shouldn't be a problem.
          11                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  Okay.
          12    Great.  We just resubmit and that's it.
          13                         MR. MILLER:  We don't need to
          14    table?
          15                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  This is a sketch
          16    plan tonight, so there is no action needed by the
          17    commission.
          18                         Just so I understand what's
          19    going on, you're going to be resubmitting both
          20    plans.  It'll come back before this commission.
          21    They will make a recommendation to the board of
          22    supervisors and the board of supervisors will then
          23    look at it.
          24                         Have you been before the board
          25    of supervisors to discuss your changes at all?



                                                                        50
           1                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  No.
           2                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  You will
           3    resubmit it.  It will come back here.  So we'll
           4    look at it.  You will get a revised review letter
           5    from Mr. McHale and then if there is a
           6    recommendation it will go before the board of
           7    supervisors at that time.
           8                         Any waivers, Alexis, that were
           9    requested in the first application, just resubmit a
          10    written waiver document, same documents that you
          11    would have submitted in the first application, just
          12    resubmit.
          13                         MS. ALEXIS WILKINSON:  Okay.
          14                         MR. McHALE:  Even if the
          15    stormwater calcs don't change, it'll be a part of
          16    this package.
          17                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  Bob,
          18    should this just be submitted as a revision to the
          19    approved land development plan?
          20                         MR. McHALE:  We don't have a
          21    process that's separate, that would do anything
          22    different, Chris.  So it's pretty much just a land
          23    development application.  You can write in
          24    parenthesis revised and put the approved date if
          25    you want on the information form.



                                                                        51
           1                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  That
           2    may make some of the other administrative things a
           3    little bit easier for the planning commission and
           4    the supervisors because they are previously
           5    approved and can just carry over.
           6                         MS. ALEXIS McDERMOTT:  Thank you
           7    very much.
           8                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  We'll
           9    move on to Faith Lutheran Church sketch plan.
          10                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  What we want
          11    to do is, Faith Lutheran Church is, we want to take
          12    off 600 square feet of what is right now office
          13    space because they are in very poor shape.  What we
          14    want to do is relocate that 600 square feet to the
          15    other side of the building to facilitate bathrooms,
          16    and actually what the architect calls a cry room,
          17    which is where children, when they are -- more or
          18    less like a nursery area, during church.  Then the
          19    offices are being moved into the other section of
          20    the church that was classrooms at one time.  So
          21    what we are looking for is a waiver of the land
          22    development act.
          23                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.  I see
          24    you've given us a written request for waivers.
          25                         Bob, have you taken a look at



                                                                        52
           1    this?
           2                         MR. McHALE:  Just as far as what
           3    was submitted to us on the 3rd.  I didn't go
           4    through and check all the numbers and reference off
           5    the section of the ordinance.
           6                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Okay.
           7                         MR. McHALE:  Refresh my memory,
           8    Steve, but I think this plan, when a previous
           9    expansion had occurred, there was stormwater
          10    calculations that were submitted at that point in
          11    time?
          12                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  Yes.
          13                         MR. McHALE:  They are not
          14    changing or increasing anything.  They are going to
          15    demolish 600 square feet of what are modular type
          16    structures and move it over to the other side.  So
          17    the action -- what you're requesting is a waiver of
          18    the land development requirement, which is a little
          19    unique, but what they are proposing is in a
          20    commercial district.  And, Phyllis, you might want
          21    to comment on how this comes about with the zoning.
          22                         MS. PHYLLIS HAASE:  This is a
          23    nonconforming use of the land.  A church is not
          24    allowed in a commercial district.  The applicant
          25    has gone before the zoning hearing board and



                                                                        53
           1    received a variance for expansion of the 600 square
           2    feet.  So they have obtained that from the zoning
           3    hearing board.
           4                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So they are
           5    asking us, in essence, to switch out to one area of
           6    600 square foot for a new area of 600 square foot
           7    and asking us to recommend a waiver to the land
           8    development.
           9                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  What type of a
          10    structure is the structure that you're removing?
          11    Is it like a modular type structure?
          12                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  It's a
          13    framed modular structure.  It used to, you know --
          14    at one time it had wheels underneath, but that was
          15    all taken off because it had to be more or less set
          16    as a permanent structure.  It has a foundation
          17    underneath it.
          18                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  And one of
          19    equal -- the same spacewise, just going to be moved
          20    to a different area of the church.
          21                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  Yep.  It's
          22    going to just be located in a different area.
          23                         MS. PHYLLIS HAASE:  You will
          24    raze the existing --
          25                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  Yes.  The



                                                                        54
           1    existing 600 feet is definitely coming out of there
           2    because it's in bad shape.
           3                         MR. BAXTER:  The new
           4    construction will be what type of construction?
           5                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  Stick frame.
           6    Not going to be modular.  It will be on a full
           7    crawl space.
           8                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  And then if
           9    they're not within the setbacks with the proposal,
          10    the building setbacks --
          11                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  It meets all
          12    the setbacks.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  You're not going
          14    to be increasing parking?  Stormwater?
          15                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  No.
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Sewer flow?
          17                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  No.  None of
          18    that is going to change.
          19                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  So you're
          20    requesting -- I mean, ultimately it's going to be
          21    before the board of supervisors.  You're requesting
          22    a waiver of land development.  I'm just curious why
          23    you're also requesting a waiver of all these other
          24    sections of -- it looks like SALDO.
          25                         MR. McHALE:  The way it's



                                                                        55
           1    written, to the best of their knowledge, these
           2    items don't apply to what they are doing, but
           3    unless we got into it, we wouldn't really know,
           4    unless we looked up every section, what does apply
           5    or doesn't.  So, really, I think the request is
           6    over all very broad.  They are just asking for a
           7    waiver of land development because of the
           8    uniqueness of what's being proposed.
           9                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  So the planning
          10    commission, tonight, if you have any questions as
          11    to other than what he's already indicated to you,
          12    what the church is going to be proposing, what is
          13    before you is whether or not you would recommend to
          14    the board of supervisors to approve the request for
          15    a waiver of land development, given the proposal of
          16    the applicant, and subject to any conditions that
          17    you may have in mind or subject to any conditions
          18    that the board of supervisors may have.  Conditions
          19    similar to like stormwater or --
          20                         MR. McHALE:  I think one note
          21    that we've asked other applicants, in fact, Creek
          22    View Estates, when they were requesting regarding
          23    their minor subdivision, was things related to that
          24    this is not a precedent setting action, if you do
          25    decide to move forward with a recommendation for



                                                                        56
           1    waiving of the land development, but any future
           2    development beyond this should be subject to any
           3    and all requirements of the ordinance as they exist
           4    at that time.
           5                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  Right.
           6                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Comments from
           7    the board?
           8                         MR. MILLER:  I have no problem
           9    with it.
          10                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  No problem.
          11                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Obviously one of
          12    the conditions would ultimately be that the
          13    existing 600 square foot would be removed.
          14                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  Absolutely.
          15    Absolutely.  Well, actually, the handicap ramp is
          16    going to change around.  Instead of sawing back and
          17    forth, it's going to be a straight run shot.
          18                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I think that's
          19    an important point, that you still have to conform
          20    with all the building code requirements.
          21                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  Absolutely.
          22                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  That would also
          23    be a condition of any kind of a waiver.
          24                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Any other
          25    comments from the board?  Any comments from the



                                                                        57
           1    public?
           2                         MR. BAXTER:  We need a motion,
           3    conceptually, because I'm not sure without looking
           4    into all of these specific citations, that we would
           5    want to comment on those.
           6                         MR. McHALE:  Correct.
           7                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  So that if it's
           8    so inclined for the planning commission to make a
           9    recommendation this evening, it would just be a
          10    recommendation either that the request for a waiver
          11    of land development be approved by the board of
          12    supervisors, pursuant to whatever conditions the
          13    planning commission wants or that you recommend
          14    that his request for a waiver be denied, of land
          15    development.
          16                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I'll suggest
          17    that -- I'll entertain a motion to recommend to the
          18    board of supervisors a waiver to the requirements
          19    for providing land development plan for the Faith
          20    Lutheran Church subject to removal of the 600
          21    square foot existing office trailer and replacement
          22    of no more than the 600 square foot of -- office
          23    space?
          24                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  No, actually
          25    toilet facilities.



                                                                        58
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Toilet
           2    facilities.
           3                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  We are
           4    eliminating what bathrooms we have now.  Where the
           5    bathrooms and classroom that we have now are going
           6    to be office, the pastor's and secretary's office.
           7                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  So there is no
           8    increase in the sewer flow?  No increased
           9    bathrooms?  You're replacing the existing
          10    bathrooms?
          11                         MR. STEVE SLUTTER:  Right.  We
          12    are replacing the existing bathrooms.
          13                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I didn't
          14    understand that.
          15                         Condition that number one,
          16    removal of the 600 square foot and replacement of
          17    no more than 600 square foot; that the existing
          18    bathrooms be replaced with the new proposed
          19    bathrooms so that there is no increase in the sewer
          20    flow; that any further development past this point
          21    would require submittal of a land development plan;
          22    and that all building codes and L and I
          23    requirements be met.
          24                         MR. BAXTER:  I would make that
          25    motion.



                                                                        59
           1                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  I have a motion.
           2    Do I have a second to that motion?
           3                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Second.
           4                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Motion and
           5    seconded.  Any discussion?  All those in favor
           6    please say aye.
           7                         MR. MILLER:  Aye.
           8                         MR. BAXTER:  Aye.
           9                         MR. VANDERVLIET:  Aye.
          10                         MR. SINCAVAGE:  Aye.
          11                         I'm going to announce that a
          12    time waiver was received for the Shikhman medical
          13    office building, Locust Ridge Quarry, Creek View
          14    Estates and Omnipoint T Mobile.
          15                         That takes care of everything.
          16    And I have to recuse myself for the next item.
          17    Joe, it's up to you.
          18                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:  I'm
          19    Chris McDermott again, still with Reilly
          20    Associates.  At this time I'm here regarding the
          21    land development plans.
          22                         You have two items on your
          23    agenda for land development as to Lot 100 and Lot
          24    110 of New Ventures Park.  I'd ask that you
          25    consider both of these concurrently.



                                                                        60
           1                         We submitted the plans
           2    concurrently.  They are a set of plans for Arcadia
           3    Properties, LLC.  Mr. Shawn Langen is here from
           4    Arcadia.  We submitted these plans.  They are
           5    substantial plans.  They're going to take your
           6    engineer sometime to review, so I would like to
           7    just present the plan in general to you tonight,
           8    get any comments which you may have, and then we
           9    will sit back and wait for Bob's comments and move
          10    forward accordingly.
          11                         Just to orient you, the lots in
          12    question are Lot 100 and Lot 110 located in Section
          13    3 of New Ventures Park, Industrial Park.  I think
          14    you're all familiar with this.  It's been through
          15    several times.  You just approved or sold Lot 13,
          16    which is located in this area.  Last year the
          17    subdivision which created Lots 100 and 110 had gone
          18    through, and at that time there was an internal
          19    road system which was proposed to service these
          20    lots.  You may recall, the internal road system in
          21    Lot 100 was proposed that there would be an access
          22    road, which would loop around and go into Lot 100
          23    and come out into Venture Avenue.  We are just
          24    building upon those roads which were already part
          25    of that subdivision.



                                                                        61
           1                         Lot 100 is the larger of the two
           2    lots located on the northern side of the property.
           3    Again, the access road will be Venture Avenue,
           4    which enters onto Commerce and ultimately onto
           5    Route 115.  What we are proposing is to develop
           6    this Lot which is a 207 acre lot for a warehouse
           7    and distribution center.  The proposed building
           8    itself is about one and one quarter million square
           9    feet.  It is a substantial building.  We will be
          10    providing 267 parking spaces for employees; a large
          11    loading dock area along the southern portion of the
          12    building; 118 truck trailer spaces located --
          13    opposing that truck -- the loading dock area; 119
          14    trailer spaces and a satellite parking area; and
          15    also an additional satellite area for trailer
          16    parking, which would accommodate 286 trailers.
          17    This is proposed into the future.  We wouldn't be
          18    constructing that immediately.
          19                         The development will be served
          20    by the existing central sewage collection system,
          21    and connection to the municipal sewage treatment
          22    system.  We are proposing a low pressure line,
          23    which would run along Venture Avenue.
          24                         We are also looking into the
          25    existing gravity line on Lot 15 which we may be



                                                                        62
           1    able to connect to, so we may change that to a
           2    gravity instead of low pressure collection system.
           3    We'll propose to provide water to the building via
           4    on-lot wells.  There will likely be multiple wells,
           5    a well that serves the building itself and also one
           6    to replenish a proposed fire suppression tank which
           7    would be located adjacent to the satellite trailer
           8    area.  This suppression tank will be available for
           9    both Lot 100 and Lot 110.  Cross easements will be
          10    established for that use.  Lot 110 is a 600,000
          11    square foot building; also provide vehicle parking
          12    for employees.  There is 213 spaces provided.
          13    That's well in excess right now of the number of
          14    employees expected to be generated by this
          15    building.  There are a total of 228 trailer parking
          16    stalls provided along the side of the building.
          17    Again, we'll have an on-lot well connection to the
          18    existing central sewage collection.  We have
          19    proposed a 16 inch low pressure line along this
          20    access road as part of the previous subdivision.
          21                         Stormwater:  What we are
          22    proposing are an internal collection system which
          23    will gather water from the building and the parking
          24    areas and route it to a stacked stormwater
          25    detention basin.  This basin is essentially a two



                                                                        63
           1    stage basin.  One where we'll collect stormwater in
           2    volume from a two-year storm, which will then be
           3    routed to the subsurface infiltration areas
           4    underneath the parking lot and a portion of the
           5    access way adjacent to both the north and south
           6    side of the Lot 100 building.  There will also be
           7    an additional subsurface detention area underneath
           8    the paved area.  What we are doing with the
           9    detention area is, really, we are gathering water
          10    so that we can interject it or distribute it into
          11    the subsurface infiltration areas and this is to
          12    meet the state guidelines as far as controlling the
          13    volume of runoff from the property.  And that is
          14    for, potentially, a two-year storm.  Storms that
          15    are less frequent or greater in quantity, will be
          16    routed to the lower portions of the detention basin
          17    here, and also held in the detention basin, in this
          18    area, which will then be discharged towards the
          19    wetlands and toward Tobyhanna.  We'll be designing
          20    individual rate controls, which I think you're all
          21    familiar with, which we've traditionally always
          22    done.
          23                         Likewise, this building will
          24    also have a two-stage detention basin, again
          25    collecting the more frequent storms, most of the



                                                                        64
           1    rain that falls through, and introducing that into
           2    a subsurface infiltration area underneath the
           3    proposed parking.  And the less frequent, higher
           4    volume storms, would be detained in the lower basin
           5    and then discharged at a controlled rate to the
           6    tributary, to Goose Run.
           7                         In regard to traffic, both of
           8    these facilities will access Commerce Boulevard,
           9    which enters onto Route 115, the existing driveway
          10    entrance adjacent to the hotel.  When the Phase 3
          11    subdivision was going through and prior to the
          12    submission of this plan, there had been talks with
          13    PennDOT and this township and Tunkhannock Township
          14    about traffic from this facility.
          15                         We have determined the scope of
          16    the traffic study which will be required for this.
          17    Both townships and PennDOT have agreed to that
          18    scope.  We have performed traffic counts and we
          19    have completed a significant portion of that study
          20    and we anticipate completing that within the next
          21    few weeks and submitting that directly to the
          22    township for their review.  And that will address
          23    the access concerns and any improvements or
          24    additions, alterations that would have to be made
          25    to this intersection as well as any other



                                                                        65
           1    intersection that was identified in this study.
           2                         Again, this is a large plan.
           3    We've asked Bob to take a look at it.  We've told
           4    Bob it is a big plan and should he need our help or
           5    input as he reviews this, we are certainly
           6    available.  So we know you can't have significant
           7    design comments at this meeting, but if there is
           8    any comments which the planning commission members
           9    have, I welcome to take them at this time and
          10    answer any questions.
          11                         MR. ARMSTRONG:  Pretty big.
          12                         MR. McHALE:  There is only a few
          13    documents that are in process, being prepared, to
          14    make the application complete.  Once that occurs,
          15    it sounds like within the next couple of weeks,
          16    then we will continue to proceed ahead in the
          17    process.  The applicant did request that we begin
          18    the technical review in advance of while they are
          19    having discussions with the DEP and conservation
          20    district and these types of agencies.
          21                         MR. CHRISTOPHER McDERMOTT:
          22    We'll note that we've already had a pre-application
          23    meeting regarding the NPDES and stormwater
          24    requirements as far as the state is concerned with
          25    DEP.  And we are currently arranging a



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           1    pre-application meeting for the erosion permit,
           2    pollution control plan, with the Monroe County
           3    Conservation District.  They were invited to the
           4    meeting with DEP, however they were unable to
           5    attend due to a conflict.
           6                         MR. SHAWN LANGEN:  If I can give
           7    you a quick background.  Thankfully -- I looked at
           8    the agenda and saw I was 22, 21 out of 23, I
           9    thought we'd be here till midnight.
          10                         My name is Shawn Langen.  I'm
          11    Vice-President of Development for Arcadia.  Sounds
          12    kind of important, but I'm the only guy in
          13    development.  So I'm kind of the head in my own
          14    department.  I'm the guy in the pickup truck out at
          15    the site.  I'll be integrating with the township
          16    staff.
          17                         We are here to get started on
          18    taking this through the land development process.
          19    We are kind of picking up the torch from SIDE Corp,
          20    who's done a great job and had a lot of foresight
          21    for this location, close highway proximity, good
          22    infrastructure with utilities.  We are definitely
          23    here to move forward.  We are not looking to push
          24    the envelope with the approvals.  We realize that
          25    that your township engineer has a lot of work ahead



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           1    of him to review.  We realize that and we are going
           2    to move forward at the pace that we can kind of
           3    handle.
           4                         Some of the collateral I gave
           5    you, our company is not a large company, but we are
           6    a successful company building this type of product.
           7    We have a few significant projects underway and
           8    completed.  The last few years we started out with
           9    Lehigh Valley, Arcadia West Industrial, if you've
          10    ever been on Route 22 where it becomes 78 as you
          11    leave the valley, on the right hand side there is a
          12    few rather large buildings, nothing this size, but
          13    several hundred thousand square feet.  We brought
          14    in large companies, -- Advanced Auto Parts, a
          15    number of other companies located there.  We have
          16    the Arcadia North Industrial Park, which is in
          17    close proximity to the Pocono Mountain Municipal
          18    Airport, if anybody is familiar with that, Johnson
          19    and Johnson Warehouse Distribution facility, that
          20    we developed within the park.  That's basically
          21    opening very shortly.  That's bringing several
          22    hundred new jobs to the area.
          23                         This size building, based on our
          24    other projects, would definitely be probably a
          25    multi-ship facility, which is great because it



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