Before
THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
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In Re: Regular Business Meeting
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Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
State Avenue
Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
Monday, August 10, 2009, beginning at 7 p.m.
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PRESENT: JOHN E. KERRICK, Chairperson
HEIDI PICKARD, Vice-Chairperson
DONALD J. MOYER, Board Member
JAMIE B. KEENER, Board Member
ANNE LAMBERTON, Board Member
PATRICK ARMSTRONG, ESQUIRE, Solicitor
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Panko Reporting
537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
(570) 421-3620
2
1 MR. KERRICK: I'd like to call
2 the meeting to order, Tobyhanna Township Board of
3 Supervisors, August 10, 2009. Can we open the
4 meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance, please.
5 (Pledge of Allegiance.)
6 MR. KERRICK: First item of
7 business, do you have any announcements?
8 MS. PICKARD: I just wanted to
9 remind everybody about the Monroe County
10 Association of Township Officials is having their
11 meeting on Wednesday September 9, 7 o'clock, at
12 Stroud Township Municipal Building. Their dinner,
13 which we need to RSVP to, is on Friday, September
14 11th, at the Polk Township Volunteer Fire Hall, 5
15 p.m., social hour and dinner starts at 6. I
16 believe it may be BYOB because it's at the fire
17 hall, if anybody is interested.
18 MR. MOYER: What day is it?
19 MS. PICKARD: It's Friday night.
20 It says RSVP to the fax number. We should RSVP
21 soon if anybody is interested in going.
22 MR. KERRICK: Anything else
23 Heidi?
24 MS. PICKARD: I just want to
25 mention that at some point in time, I don't have it
3
1 on the agenda, we need to have a discussion on the
2 building code, which direction we were going to
3 move on the building code.
4 MR. KERRICK: We are going to
5 talk about that today.
6 MS. PICKARD: We can talk about
7 that later.
8 MR. KERRICK: Is it on our
9 agenda?
10 MS. PICKARD: No, not really.
11 We can talk about it around F and G.
12 MR. KERRICK: Anything else?
13 Consider the minutes of June 8,
14 2009 regular business meeting and July 6, 2009
15 regular business meeting. What's the board's
16 pleasure?
17 MR. KEENER: Motion to approve.
18 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the
19 floor.
20 MR. MOYER: Second.
21 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
22 Questions or comments? Questions or comments from
23 the public? Call the vote. Jamie.
24 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
25 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
4
1 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
2 favor.
3 MR. KERRICK: Donny.
4 MR. MOYER: In favor.
5 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
6 MS. PICKARD: Vote in favor.
7 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
8 Motion carried.
9 Next item on our agenda,
10 consider the treasurer's report, bill packet dated
11 8/10/09. Total amount for the board's approval --
12 corrected amount would be $197,715.57.
13 MS. PICKARD: Motion to approve.
14 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the
15 floor. Do we have a second?
16 MR. KEENER: Second.
17 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
18 Questions or comments? Any questions from the
19 public? Call the vote. Jamie.
20 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
22 MRS. LAMBERTON: I'm going to
23 abstain.
24 MR. KERRICK: Donny.
25 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
5
1 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
2 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
3 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
4 Motion carried.
5 Next item on our agenda,
6 solicitor's report.
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: I actually don't
8 have anything under my report. The regional comp
9 map has been provided to the county, the school
10 district and the planning commission in neighboring
11 municipalities and it's going to most likely be up
12 for public hearing in your September meeting, not
13 your work session meeting, after that. So it will
14 be before you for action at that time. I haven't
15 received any responses from any of the neighboring
16 municipalities or county or the school district to
17 date. It's my understanding the planning
18 commission is going to look at it, the township
19 planning commission is going to look at it at their
20 September meeting because there were some changes
21 made since they recommended it a few months back.
22 Other than that, I guess there
23 are still a couple pending ordinances that you guys
24 were going to consider. We don't have to talk
25 about them tonight, but the two that come to mind
6
1 are the windmill ordinance as well as the certain
2 revisions that you were discussing about the wood
3 burners.
4 MS. PICKARD: We should do that
5 before fall probably.
6 MR. ARMSTRONG: Whatever the
7 pleasure of the board is.
8 It's been sometime since we
9 discussed the windmill ordinance. If you like, I
10 can send you guys the most recent draft, if you
11 want to take a look at that before the work session
12 in September.
13 MS. PICKARD: Okay. The Act 167
14 we'll talk about that at the work session.
15 MR. KERRICK: On the work
16 session.
17 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. I think
18 Bob is working on appendices to the Act 167.
19 MR. KERRICK: Yes, he is.
20 Anything else, Pat?
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: No. Other than
22 that, that's all I have.
23 MR. KERRICK: Thank you. Next
24 we'll go to new business. Kush and Sunny
25 preliminary land development plan time waiver.
7
1 MS. PICKARD: They asked to be
2 tabled from the agenda and provided us with a time
3 waiver until September 15, 2009. They will be on
4 the September agenda.
5 MR. KERRICK: Motion.
6 MS. PICKARD: So moved.
7 MR. KERRICK: Do I have a
8 second?
9 MR. MOYER: Second.
10 MR. KERRICK: Questions or
11 comments? Questions or comments from the public?
12 Call the vote. Jamie.
13 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
14 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
15 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
16 favor.
17 MR. KERRICK: Donny.
18 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
20 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
22 Motion carried.
23 Next item on our agenda, John
24 McElroy pre/final land development plan, request to
25 table. Do we have a date?
8
1 MS. PICKARD: I think it's just
2 this meeting and the time waiver was fine. I think
3 they were out of town.
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: I think the
5 current time waiver takes them into October.
6 MR. KERRICK: Do I have a motion
7 on the floor to table?
8 MS. PICKARD: Motion to table.
9 MR. KERRICK: Do we have a
10 second?
11 MR. MOYER: Second.
12 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
13 Questions or comments? Questions or comments from
14 the public? Call the vote. Jamie.
15 MR. KEENER: I abstain.
16 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
17 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
18 favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Donny.
20 MR. MOYER: In vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
22 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
23 MR. KERRICK: Vote in favor.
24 Motion carried.
25 Next item, Hanover Engineering
9
1 Proposal, Austin T. Blakeslee Park building
2 structural design.
3 MS. PICKARD: This is for the
4 gaming grant that we received with Tunkhannock as
5 the lead municipality. We had contacted two
6 engineering firms. Hanover had done some of the
7 original work on the open -- on the master site
8 plan and was $10,000 less than the other one. The
9 total is -- Borton and Lawson is 26,750 and Hanover
10 is 12,850. Open space is recommending that we
11 approve Hanover to do the engineering at $12,850
12 and they are looking for a motion from both boards
13 to approve that so we can get the project started.
14 MR. ARMSTRONG: Has Bob looked
15 at both of these?
16 MS. PICKARD: Yes. Bob met with
17 the -- Bob and Anne Sincavage and myself went out
18 with both engineering firms.
19 MR. ARMSTRONG: The only thing I
20 actually just noticed after looking at the packet
21 is --
22 MS. PICKARD: John was there.
23 MR. ARMSTRONG: The Hanover
24 Engineering, it's dated March 31st, and on page 4
25 it looks like this proposal will be valid for 90
10
1 days. I don't know if anyone -- has Bob contacted
2 them about that to make sure it's still a valid
3 proposal?
4 MS. PICKARD: We can amend the
5 motion.
6 MR. ARMSTRONG: Just confirm.
7 MS. PICKARD: Okay. I think we
8 had that. I was asked to get another proposal. So
9 I'll make a motion to approve that based on
10 verifying that the proposal is still good at
11 12,850.
12 MR. KERRICK: Is there a second?
13 MR. MOYER: Second.
14 MR. KERRICK: I have a question.
15 Did you review it, Jim? Did you go through the two
16 proposals.
17 MR. KEENER: No, but I'm
18 noticing that they're estimated fees. It's not a
19 lump sum. It's not a T and M not to exceed,
20 they're estimated. I would ask that we approve it
21 with a not to exceed fee for each of these, for the
22 total, the estimated project total.
23 MS. PICKARD: I'll amend my
24 motion.
25 MR. KERRICK: How are you going
11
1 to amend your motion? Don't they have to give us a
2 new proposal? We are going to put a limit on it.
3 MR. KEENER: We can mark it up,
4 initial it and sign it and if they don't accept it,
5 then --
6 MR. KERRICK: I just wanted that
7 clarified. You made the motion then Heidi?
8 MS. PICKARD: Yes.
9 MR. KERRICK: Do you amend your
10 second, Donny?
11 MR. MOYER: I do.
12 MR. KERRICK: Any questions or
13 comments?
14 MS. PICKARD: I'll let Tunk know
15 that that's how we have made the motion.
16 MR. KERRICK: Anyone from the
17 public? Jamie, call the vote.
18 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
20 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
21 favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: Don.
23 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
24 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
25 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
12
1 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
2 Next item, Shikhman Medical
3 Office Building, time extension for recordation of
4 plans.
5 MS. PICKARD: Apparently the
6 Shikhmans do not have their highway occupancy
7 permit. We haven't signed the plans as of yet and
8 they still have the approval for the highway
9 occupancy permit outstanding. Maureen spoke with
10 Sarah Bue-Morris. Shikhmans are out of the
11 country. They submitted to PennDOT and they are
12 awaiting for a response.
13 MR. KERRICK: We can't hold it
14 up for another agency, correct?
15 MS. PICKARD: This precedes you.
16 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yes, but my
17 understanding is the plans already received
18 conditional approval. This is just a condition
19 that they have to meet in order to --
20 MS. PICKARD: Record the plans
21 at the county.
22 MR. ARMSTRONG: Right. Right.
23 So there is no real action for you to take with
24 respect to approving the plans.
25 MR. KERRICK: I understand that.
13
1 I just wanted to know how we are going to do this
2 or it doesn't really make much difference to the
3 board.
4 Do we know if there is any
5 action on their side as far as PennDOT? If nobody
6 else cares, I'm sorry I brought it up.
7 MR. KEENER: I know what's
8 happening with PennDOT right now, and I would say
9 that they need sometime to resolve their issues.
10 MR. KERRICK: Okay.
11 MR. KEENER: I wouldn't want to
12 decline them an approval --
13 MR. KERRICK: I didn't mean it
14 that way. I just thought to make sure that
15 somebody follows it, to make sure that they are
16 continuing ahead.
17 MR. KEENER: We can ask them for
18 any correspondence that they've had.
19 MS. PICKARD: The last review
20 letter that was rejected from PennDOT I saw was
21 December 31st. Supposedly that was addressed. I
22 wasn't clear. Maureen talked to Sarah.
23 MR. KERRICK: I haven't seen
24 anything since last year.
25 MS. PICKARD: They submitted it,
14
1 but we didn't --
2 MR. KEENER: I'd just ask Sarah
3 for a copy of the resubmittal. We should get a
4 copy.
5 MR. MOYER: There is not even a
6 date for when they resubmitted it.
7 MR. KERRICK: Do we have a
8 motion to extend?
9 MR. KEENER: So moved.
10 MR. KERRICK: Do we have a
11 second?
12 MR. MOYER: Second.
13 MS. PICKARD: Extending it to?
14 MR. KEENER: To three months
15 from today.
16 MS. PICKARD: November. Our
17 meeting would be November 10th. You want to make
18 that November 10th? I'll call Sarah.
19 MR. KEENER: You might want to
20 make it the 16th since that's our regular meeting
21 or no, the 9th.
22 MS. PICKARD: The 9th.
23 MR. KEENER: That will cover our
24 meeting.
25 MR. KERRICK: Okay. Motion and
15
1 second. Questions or comments? Questions or
2 comments from the public? Call the vote. Jamie.
3 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
4 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
5 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
6 favor.
7 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
8 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
9 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
10 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
11 MR. KERRICK: And I vote in
12 favor.
13 Next item on our agenda,
14 Pinecrest Lake. Phase schedule, annual update.
15 Do you have any comments?
16 MS. PICKARD: Yes, I do. We
17 have -- Eddie had called. We had approved phase 2,
18 section 4 and phase 2, section 5 on April 11th of
19 2005, so I will get on BJ. He said he sent it and
20 I thought Margie had it in the packet. She was out
21 a couple days, but it should be phase 2, section 4
22 and section 5. They were actually approved in
23 April of '05. We still have a 1 1 20 12 submittal.
24 They are approved.
25 MR. KERRICK: Okay.
16
1 MS. PICKARD: If you want to
2 make that correction. If we don't have a copy,
3 Brandon said he would give us one from his office
4 with the correct date.
5 I would make a motion to approve
6 Pinecrest Lake Phase Scheduled Annual Update with
7 that correction.
8 MR. KEENER: Second.
9 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
10 Questions or comments? Questions from the public?
11 Call the vote. Jamie.
12 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
13 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
14 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
15 favor.
16 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
17 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
18 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
19 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
20 MR. KERRICK: And I vote in
21 favor. Motion carried.
22 Next item Resolution 2009-018,
23 William J. Burton as building code inspector. Do
24 we have a motion?
25 MR. KEENER: So moved.
17
1 MR. KERRICK: Do I have a
2 second?
3 MR. MOYER: Second.
4 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
5 Questions or comments? Questions or comments from
6 the public on the motion?
7 MS. PICKARD: I just want to
8 mention that we approved Veritas and specifically
9 William J. Burton. He has to come in and take an
10 oath of office as our BCO.
11 MRS. LAMBERTON: How does this
12 affect the issues that we were trying to agree with
13 their contract? Does this affect it or --
14 MR. KEENER: No, he needs to be
15 in there now because we don't have one.
16 MR. MOYER: I think Bill Weber
17 was --
18 MR. KEENER: That's correct.
19 MRS. LAMBERTON: He's the
20 replacement.
21 MS. PICKARD: He's the
22 replacement of Bill Weber.
23 MR. KERRICK: Questions or
24 comments?
25 Call the vote. Jamie.
18
1 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
2 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
3 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
4 favor.
5 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
6 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
7 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
8 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
9 MR. KERRICK: And I vote in
10 favor. Motion carried.
11 The next item on our agenda, the
12 Uniform Construction Code Appeals Board
13 appointment.
14 MS. PICKARD: At the meeting the
15 committee recommended the appointing of Mr. Noonan
16 to fill the term of Stan Johnson.
17 MR. KERRICK: Can we do that in
18 a motion?
19 MS. PICKARD: I'll make a motion
20 that we appoint Dennis Noonan to fulfill the term
21 of Stan Johnson on the UCC Appeals Board.
22 MR. KEENER: Second.
23 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
24 Questions or comments? Questions or comments from
25 the public?
19
1 Call the vote. Jamie.
2 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
3 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
4 MRS. LAMBERTON: Vote in favor.
5 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
6 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
7 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
8 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
9 MR. KERRICK: Vote in favor.
10 Motion carries.
11 MS. PICKARD: I don't know if
12 you want to stop here and bring up the building
13 code amendment?
14 MR. KERRICK: I'd like to finish
15 the agenda, if you don't mind.
16 Next item on our agenda,
17 Resolution 2009-019 supporting Federal Local Fiscal
18 Assistance Act.
19 MS. PICKARD: This was a
20 resolution that PSAT sent some information out, was
21 requesting that we support this Local Fiscal
22 Assistance Act that Congress is looking at. I
23 believe that our representative, Paul Kanjorski,
24 had brought it forth to help local municipalities
25 with stimulus money.
20
1 I'll make a motion to approve
2 Resolution 2009-019.
3 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the
4 floor. Do we have a second.
5 MR. KEENER: Second.
6 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
7 Questions or comments? Questions or comments from
8 the public?
9 Call the vote. Jamie.
10 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
11 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
12 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
13 favor.
14 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
15 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
16 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
17 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
18 MR. KERRICK: And I vote in
19 favor. Motion carried.
20 Next item on our agenda,
21 Interstate Road Management quotes for pavement
22 markings at signalized intersections. We are going
23 to do that in the work session next month?
24 MS. PICKARD: He was looking for
25 an answer today if we can tell him. That's up to
21
1 you.
2 MR. KEENER: If you look at the
3 quotes in your packet, two hundred dollars
4 difference to go thermoplastic versus paint. The
5 thermoplastic bid was $6,375.75.
6 MS. PICKARD: Do you think with
7 the $500.00 difference that it would certainly be
8 better to go with the thermoplastic?
9 MR. KEENER: Is that your
10 recommendation?
11 MR. KERRICK: Yes, it is.
12 MS. PICKARD: We were looking to
13 appropriate this from the capital contingency
14 reserve.
15 MR. KERRICK: Yes.
16 MS. PICKARD: Did we get other
17 quotes for this or --
18 MR. KERRICK: No. They've
19 already --
20 MS. PICKARD: They had our COG
21 contract.
22 MR. KERRICK: COG contract. The
23 low bidder. What is the board's pleasure?
24 MS. PICKARD: I make a motion we
25 approve Interstate Road Management's quote for
22
1 thermoplastic to repaint our signalized
2 intersections. That's for four intersections?
3 MR. KERRICK: It's for five
4 intersections.
5 MS. PICKARD: For five
6 intersections. That will be quote -- listed as
7 quote number 4887 in the amount $6,375.75.
8 MR. KEENER: Second.
9 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
10 Questions or comments from the board? Questions or
11 comments from the public on the motion?
12 Call the vote. Jamie.
13 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
14 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
15 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
16 favor.
17 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
18 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
20 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: And I vote in
22 favor. Motion carried.
23 Okay, Heidi, let's talk about --
24 MS. PICKARD: We have two
25 issues, and I think Pat needs to speak to one. Pat
23
1 looked at the building code amendment. This is for
2 the group. Right now Paradise is out of the group.
3 Definitely have Coolbaugh and Mount Pocono.
4 MR. KERRICK: Are they still in
5 now or are they out?
6 MS. PICKARD: Paradise is out.
7 MR. KEENER: Paradise is going
8 out.
9 MS. PICKARD: Going out at the
10 end of the year. I'm not clear what -- Tunkhannock
11 may not stay in, and I didn't get a definitive from
12 them one way or another at the meeting. There were
13 the amendments that are in our work session packet.
14 Pat I know had some questions for Attorney
15 DeStefano. You want to speak to that?
16 MR. ARMSTRONG: I called him
17 again. I have not heard back. I guess before I
18 spend time on that, I think, you know, the decision
19 the board needs to make is still, just before I
20 start any time and effort of contacting
21 Mr. DeStefano, one of two choices, one is, you
22 know, the intention of the board to stay on the
23 joint committee as it is now and just move forward
24 with the amendments as it has been in the past or
25 do you want to consider I guess withdrawing like
24
1 Paradise has and contracting directly independently
2 with either Guardian or Veritas or some other
3 entity and then possibly consider a joint UCC Board
4 of Appeals. That's a decision sitting on the table
5 for a while now. If you want to move forward with
6 the joint committee, that's fine. I'll just call
7 Mr. DeStefano throughout the week and hopefully
8 he'll get back to me and we'll address those
9 comments that I have proposed.
10 MR. MOYER: We can still stay
11 with the same appeals board, we don't have to --
12 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yes.
13 MS. PICKARD: Well, there was
14 discussion about that and Mr. Hutchins didn't think
15 that it was necessarily a good idea if everybody
16 had different contractors, whether they stayed with
17 the appeals board. I understand that Tunk in or
18 out is okay with the appeals board and Paradise on
19 the appeals board.
20 MR. MOYER: It's two separate
21 things. I mean, he shouldn't have an opinion on
22 that.
23 MR. KERRICK: I'd like to see a
24 little more time go by. They've changed a few
25 things that we brought to their attention, actually
25
1 lots of things.
2 MS. PICKARD: That's the second
3 part of this. First we stay in the group, second
4 is --
5 MR. KERRICK: If you allow me to
6 finish. I don't know. We already submitted a
7 letter that we may withdraw or will withdraw.
8 That's already taken care of, so we can go if we
9 choose. It's a new group of people here. I have
10 no problem giving them a chance to make it or break
11 it, but I don't know what you people --
12 MS. PICKARD: The second part of
13 that is if we are saying whether or not they want
14 to put out an RFP to get other proposals and make
15 that decision. The consensus seems that Veritas
16 seems to be working. Whether or not we limited any
17 of these agreements to a year and see what happens,
18 instead of having a contract roll over. But,
19 again, two representatives were not there. They
20 want to hold another meeting September 3rd so that
21 they can discuss if they need to put an RFP. They
22 need to notify Veritas 90 days before the end of
23 year and get an RFP together and put one out.
24 MR. MOYER: Pat, do you have a
25 lot of issues with the proposed amendment?
26
1 MR. ARMSTRONG: A lot of
2 clarifications. We don't need to go through it
3 issue by issue. One of the big things is whether
4 or not the committee is going to have the ability
5 to contract with Guardian, Veritas, or Tobyhanna
6 Township alone is going to have the ability to do
7 that. It almost seems to speak as -- it kind of
8 speaks both ways in the way it's written right now.
9 And I just want to make sure that that's clarified
10 in the agreement.
11 MS. PICKARD: And it was the
12 understanding from the meeting that that would be
13 the case.
14 MR. ARMSTRONG: Which would be,
15 that Tobyhanna would contract?
16 MS. PICKARD: That we'd all be
17 signing a contract. The contract wouldn't be
18 entered into by the committee.
19 MR. KEENER: If I could,
20 intergovernmental cooperation is a great thing, as
21 long as it creates efficiency. And for the two
22 years that I've been involved in this group, I have
23 not seen where it's been very efficient. We've
24 gone for the past two years going back and forth
25 with revisions to these agreements, five different
27
1 solicitors reviewing the agreements, now the
2 building code group has been approved to have their
3 own solicitor, so we have five reviewing the
4 documents on behalf of the municipalities and we
5 have one reviewing on behalf the building
6 committee. You know, at some point there has to be
7 efficiency created and to this date I haven't seen
8 it.
9 MS. PICKARD: The chairman of
10 the group said that that was all because Paradise
11 and their attorney were dragging us down. That was
12 a comment that now it should be more efficient.
13 MR. KERRICK: Well, it certainly
14 doesn't help the cause by the chairman pointing out
15 that somebody's inefficiency is -- you know, I
16 think this thing could have wrapped up if they
17 would have stayed on it the past two years. I know
18 you're talking two different things here, but the
19 whole thing has changed, the whole picture has
20 changed in the last couple of months. So don't you
21 feel you can get this thing together and get it
22 ironed out by the end of the year?
23 MR. KEENER: This is the same
24 stuff we've been talking about for the past two
25 years about contractual obligations, whether the
28
1 municipality can do it or whether that group can do
2 it. I mean, it's like it's trying to be run -- at
3 times it's trying to be run as an authority or a
4 commission, like the police commission, but it's
5 not the same entity. It's not the same type of
6 structure. And that's where Pat I think is trying
7 to clarify that to say it's really just an advisory
8 board that each of the municipalities has the
9 contractual obligation or responsibility for
10 obligating the municipality in the building code
11 process.
12 MR. KERRICK: My recollection
13 when we started this, that's the way it was
14 supposed to be.
15 MR. KEENER: So what's the
16 purpose of it? What is the purpose of that
17 committee?
18 MR. KERRICK: When the whole
19 thing started there was some grants available to
20 buy office equipment and computers and different
21 things and when it started it did help the start up
22 cost of the building code.
23 I have never been on the
24 committee, so I can't speak --
25 MR. KEENER: I mean, that's the
29
1 start up cost, but operationally, I mean, if each
2 municipality is responsible for their code, which
3 we have our own code, Coolbaugh has their own code,
4 Mount Pocono has their own, so there is no
5 efficiency there because the review people or the
6 inspectors have to know every municipality's code.
7 You know, we have pieces that Coolbaugh doesn't.
8 MR. KERRICK: Not that many,
9 really.
10 MR. KEENER: The fire code.
11 MR. KERRICK: We use the
12 appendices. It's really not -- if you recommend --
13 if that's your recommendation, then recommend it to
14 the board and we'll see where it goes. Then we
15 basically pull out and do our own.
16 MR. KEENER: I'm just trying to
17 understand what the purpose of that, an extra
18 meeting a month to --
19 MR. KERRICK: There didn't have
20 to be a meeting a month. In the beginning, to set
21 it up, and it was supposed to be an advisory thing.
22 Each municipality contracted. That's the way it
23 was explained to us, if I'm correct. I could be
24 wrong.
25 MRS. LAMBERTON: How much would
30
1 our start up fees be if we would do our own and
2 separate? Are you looking at software?
3 MS. PICKARD: We already had to
4 buy the software.
5 MRS. LAMBERTON: So we have
6 everything in place. So you have to decide whether
7 you want to be part of a group or do your own
8 thing.
9 MS. PICKARD: They set this up
10 where 15 percent would come back from the cost of
11 the building permits off of what they bought. That
12 would be to offset the cost, but there is a lot
13 that needs to be handled at our end. We could
14 contract directly with Veritas ourselves or anybody
15 else.
16 MR. KEENER: Right. And we
17 wouldn't need to house them. They would have to
18 provide their own space where they would work out
19 of, if they wanted to come here.
20 What are we doing now?
21 MS. PICKARD: They are coming
22 in. They are going to be picking up all permits.
23 We have a log. So everything's here. They can
24 still drive out to Coolbaugh to do it, but
25 apparently it came as a big shock to the chair that
31
1 our people had to drive all the way over to
2 Coolbaugh to get their building permit and Tunk and
3 us, and the zoning officer from Mount Pocono, they
4 were all like -- so now, they -- Bill Burton has
5 been most helpful from Veritas, and he has agreed
6 to provide us with forms. We have a logbook so
7 they can find out that they picked them up. We
8 would take a check for Veritas and they would come
9 and pick it up and drop the stuff off. We just
10 implemented that this past week. I don't know that
11 we've had any actual permits.
12 MR. MOYER: I think if we are
13 going to do it ourselves, now is the time to do it
14 because there is not a lot of building going on.
15 We can.
16 MR. KERRICK: Your comment isn't
17 to do it ourselves, your comment is to hire
18 someone, a third party, contracting someone.
19 MR. MOYER: Yes, I mean do it
20 in-house.
21 MRS. LAMBERTON: Separate from
22 the group.
23 MR. MOYER: Right.
24 MRS. LAMBERTON: Right.
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: But maintaining
32
1 the option for a joint UCC Board of Appeals.
2 MR. KEENER: Which is basically
3 what we are doing because we are contracting
4 directly anyway. That's why I don't understand the
5 purpose of this advisory committee or whatever it
6 is.
7 MR. KERRICK: The purpose,
8 Jamie, was the start-up cost.
9 MR. MOYER: But it's all pretty
10 much the same anyway in what they had there.
11 Everybody has their own software, everybody handles
12 it their own way, the billing, all of it.
13 MR. KEENER: The only thing
14 that's in place is that they were being housed in
15 Coolbaugh Township and the costs were being sent
16 back, we were paying -- they were taking a
17 percentage out for general cost.
18 MR. MOYER: Office.
19 MR. KEENER: For office.
20 MS. PICKARD: Veritas pays rent
21 to Coolbaugh, but that's part of their cost. So we
22 are paying now a portion of the solicitor's fees
23 and the advertising.
24 MR. KEENER: What do we need to
25 be paying solicitor's fee for?
33
1 MR. ARMSTRONG: According to the
2 proposed agreement, there will also be the ability
3 to hire a secretary.
4 MR. KERRICK: That wasn't the
5 intent when it started.
6 MS. PICKARD: I think Coolbaugh
7 is paying for Linda Frutchey or someone else from
8 their office staff to be there at every meeting to
9 take the minutes and do all the mailing to
10 everybody.
11 MR. KEENER: Again, I don't know
12 what the purpose of those meetings are -- just to
13 review the zoning permits, which we should be doing
14 here anyway.
15 MS. PICKARD: The other issue
16 that I had brought up was, the intention was to
17 have elected officials on that board and we have
18 zoning officers from other boards and there is kind
19 of a different level there. They're certainly
20 not -- just like Mount Pocono and Tunk, I can maybe
21 get from where they are going, but I can't really
22 say and they weren't really able to speak. They
23 were just able to say certain things. Then more
24 information is presented and they can't really
25 speak to it.
34
1 MR. KEENER: That's part of the
2 other issue.
3 MS. PICKARD: Part of the other
4 issue is to make a decision that I don't know that
5 I feel that comfortable, that we have the zoning
6 officer --
7 MR. KEENER: That board has no
8 authority to make any decisions. That's the
9 problem. You can't operate independently of each
10 of the municipalities.
11 MR. KERRICK: Well, we've
12 already notified that we are pulling out, so it
13 appears that the majority of the board feels that
14 way, so let's continue on that path.
15 MR. KEENER: When do we notify
16 them?
17 MR. KERRICK: We already did it.
18 MS. PICKARD: We all, last year,
19 a while back, all sent letters saying that we
20 reserve the right to pull out of the group.
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: I think the
22 notice basically said if they don't resolve the
23 issues within a certain amount of time you would
24 pull out.
25 MR. KERRICK: So you want a
35
1 different letter at this time?
2 MR. MOYER: Then it's 90 days
3 from that letter.
4 MR. KEENER: Did Tobyhanna
5 Township specifically send a letter?
6 MR. KERRICK: Yes.
7 MR. KEENER: To who, Veritas?
8 MS. PICKARD: This was for the
9 committee. Veritas is 90 days. By next month we
10 need to make a decision.
11 MR. ARMSTRONG: I would
12 definitely send a clear letter saying if you're
13 going to pull out, you're going to pull out and
14 that if you want to maintain the opportunity to
15 join in a joint UCC, include that in the letter.
16 MS. PICKARD: We would be
17 willing to form a joint UCC board.
18 MR. KERRICK: We ought to have a
19 motion to instruct Pat. And I think that we ought
20 to also advertise, all in the same motion.
21 MR. KEENER: I'll make a motion
22 that we pursue withdrawal from the joint UCC board
23 sending them notice in writing and that we also
24 offer that we are interested in a joint appeals
25 board and that we proceed with advertising an RFP
36
1 for a building inspection consultant. That would
2 be to begin January 1, 2010.
3 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the
4 floor. Do we have a second?
5 MR. MOYER: Second.
6 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
7 Questions or comments from the board? Questions or
8 comments from the public on the motion?
9 Call the vote. Jamie.
10 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
11 MR. KERRICK: Anne.
12 MRS. LAMBERTON: I vote in
13 favor.
14 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
15 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
16 MR. KERRICK: Heidi.
17 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
18 MR. KERRICK: And I vote in
19 favor. Motion carried.
20 MS. PICKARD: I just had one
21 question on that. Do we extend that to Paradise
22 also so that they know that we are willing to --
23 MR. KEENER: I think you ought
24 to send it to all of them.
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: The committee
37
1 and all the members.
2 MS. PICKARD: Okay.
3 MR. KERRICK: Board have
4 anything else they'd like to discuss?
5 MR. KEENER: Yes, sir. I
6 brought up last month, I guess, the
7 Wilkes-Barre/Eastern rail trail project. It was
8 interesting, after we had the discussion here,
9 there was a meeting with two representatives from
10 the Pennsylvania Environmental Council, and earlier
11 this spring they submitted a grant application to
12 DCNR for $50,000 towards a $100,000 feasibility
13 study for the entire corridor from the Moosic area
14 to the Delaware Water Gap, which constitutes about
15 a 57 miles corridor in the Wilkes-Barre/Eastern
16 Railroad. They are going to be the lead for the
17 project. Pending acquisition of all the funding,
18 they would hire consultants to do all the
19 feasibility study. They are looking for some
20 municipalities to provide support. I am in the
21 process of drafting a sample letter that we would
22 send to the participating municipalities, which
23 again goes all the way from Delaware Water Gap
24 Borough clear up into -- it actually touches
25 Luzerne County at one point and Lackawanna County
38
1 and all the municipalities in between. State reps
2 and state senators are affected as well, looking to
3 get support for the project. Again, it's something
4 that I think our state dollars would be well served
5 for. The county has also been requested for
6 funding through the open space grants that they
7 have and anticipate that they would get that. It's
8 good that we don't have to take the lead on it.
9 The Environmental Council has already taken the
10 lead and see where that goes.
11 MS. PICKARD: Did you want us to
12 do a letter and send it out?
13 MR. KEENER: I'll prepare the
14 draft. I'll send it -- I guess we can approve it
15 at the next meeting and send it to the PEC, if you
16 agree to support it.
17 MR. KERRICK: Anything else,
18 Jamie?
19 MR. KEENER: That's it.
20 MR. KERRICK: Anyone else have
21 anything from the board?
22 Anyone from the public have any
23 questions or comments?
24 We are adjourned. Thanks for
25 coming.
39
1 (Meeting concluded at 7:40 p.m.)
2 ---
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4
5
6
7 I hereby certify that the
8 proceedings and evidence are contained fully and
9 accurately in the notes taken by me at the hearing
10 in the above matter, to the best of my ability; and
11 that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript
12 of the same.
13
14
15
16 JOSEPHINE HOLLMAN, C.R.
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