Before
THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
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In Re: Regular Business Meeting
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Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
State Avenue
Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
Monday, May 14, 2007 beginning at 7 p.m.
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PRESENT: JOHN E. KERRICK, Chairperson
HEIDI A. PICKARD, Vice-Chairperson
ANNE SINCAVAGE, Board Member
EMANUEL KAPELSOHN, ESQUIRE, Solicitor
ALSO PRESENT: PHYLLIS HAASE, Zoning Officer
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______________________________________________________________
PANKO REPORTING
537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
(570) 421-3620
2
1 MR. KERRICK: I'd like to welcome
2 everyone here this evening. We call the meeting
3 to order with the Pledge of Allegiance.
4 (Pledge of Allegiance was
5 recited.)
6 MR. KERRICK: First order of
7 business, consider the minutes March 12, '07,
8 public hearing, proposed Ordinance 459; March
9 12, '07, public hearing, Natale/Crumb; March 12,
10 '07, regular business meeting.
11 MS. PICKARD: Some corrections on
12 the March 12 public hearing Ordinance 459 on the
13 tapping fees. Pages 9, 10 and 11 should read
14 Raymond Keiper.
15 MR. KERRICK: What else do you
16 have?
17 MS. PICKARD: That was it on the
18 minutes.
19 MR. KERRICK: That's it?
20 Corrections as noted.
21 What's the board's pleasure?
22 MS. SINCAVAGE: I make a motion we
23 approve the minutes dated March 12, public
24 hearing, proposed Ordinance 459; March 12, 2007,
25 public hearing, Natale/Crumb rezoning; March 12,
3
1 2007, regular business meeting.
2 MS. PICKARD: I'll second the
3 motion.
4 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
5 Any questions from the board?
6 Questions from the public on the
7 motion?
8 Call the vote.
9 Anne?
10 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
11 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
12 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
13 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
14 Motion carried.
15 Consider the treasurer's report
16 dated --
17 MS. PICKARD: May 14.
18 MR. KERRICK: -- May 14, '07,
19 total for board approval, $251,437.08.
20 MS. PICKARD: Make a motion we
21 approve the May 14 bill pack in the amount of
22 $251,437.08.
23 MS. SINCAVAGE: Second the motion.
24 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
25 Any questions from the board?
4
1 Questions from the public on the
2 motion?
3 The bills are up front in the box,
4 if anybody wants to review them.
5 No questions. I'll call the vote.
6 Anne?
7 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
8 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
9 MS. PICKARD: Vote in favor.
10 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
11 Motion carried.
12 Solicitor's report.
13 MR. KAPELSOHN: Nothing at this
14 time.
15 MR. KERRICK: One notice, we have
16 a public notice; I think it's published on the
17 front door. It's for pool registration Friday,
18 June 8, 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.; Saturday, June 9,
19 9 a.m. to noon; Monday, June 18, 10 a.m. to
20 7 p.m.; Friday, June 22, 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.;
21 Saturday, June 23, 9 a.m. to noon; and Friday,
22 June 29, 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. And the opening date
23 would be Monday, June 18 through Labor Day.
24 New business. First order of
25 business, Sewer Tapping Fee Ordinance No. 459.
5
1 MS. PICKARD: I make a motion we
2 approve Ordinance 459.
3 MS. SINCAVAGE: I'll second the
4 motion.
5 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
6 Any questions or comments from the
7 board?
8 Questions or comments from the
9 public?
10 Call the vote.
11 Anne?
12 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
13 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
14 MS. PICKARD: Vote in favor.
15 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
16 Motion carried.
17 Next item, Subdivision and Land
18 Development Ordinance Amendment No. 460. We had
19 a hearing at 6:30 this evening.
20 What's the board's pleasure?
21 MS. PICKARD: I make a motion we
22 approve Subdivision and Land Development
23 Ordinance No. 460.
24 MS. SINCAVAGE: I'll second the
25 motion.
6
1 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
2 Any questions or comments from the
3 board?
4 Questions or comments from the
5 public?
6 Call the vote.
7 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
8 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
9 MS. PICKARD: Vote in favor.
10 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
11 Motion carried.
12 Next item, sewer treatment plan
13 sludge hauling bids.
14 MS. PICKARD: Make a motion we
15 approve the bid from Countywide SepTec at .086
16 cents per gallon.
17 MS. SINCAVAGE: I'll second the
18 motion.
19 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second on
20 the floor.
21 Any questions or comments?
22 Questions or comments from the
23 public on the sludge bid?
24 Call the vote.
25 Anne?
7
1 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
2 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
3 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
4 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
5 Motion carried.
6 (Discussion off the record.)
7 MR. KERRICK: Should we hold off
8 on Keswick Pointe?
9 MR. DONALD HANNIG: I'm here.
10 MR. KERRICK: Are you waiting for
11 anyone else? I mean, I can put you down --
12 MR. DONALD HANNIG: You can move
13 us down. We're waiting for our engineer.
14 MR. KERRICK: Okay.
15 MR. DONALD HANNIG: So that would
16 be fine.
17 MR. KERRICK: Okay. So that's
18 what we'll do.
19 Resolution 2007-009, appointing
20 Bill Weber, Guardian, as our code enforcement
21 official?
22 MS. PICKARD: Building code
23 enforcement official.
24 MR. KERRICK: Building code --
25 MS. PICKARD: Building code
8
1 enforcement official.
2 MR. KERRICK: What did I say?
3 MR. KAPELSOHN: Which is what the
4 agenda says too.
5 MS. PICKARD: I'll make a motion
6 that we approve William C. Weber, Jr. as
7 building code enforcement officer, Resolution
8 2007-009.
9 MS. SINCAVAGE: I'll second the
10 motion.
11 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
12 Any questions or comments from the
13 board?
14 Questions or comments from the
15 public on the motion?
16 Ms. Snell?
17 MS. SUE SNELL: Now, is that
18 effective immediately or when's the start date?
19 MS. PICKARD: He's the officer
20 from Guardian Inspection Services, but we just
21 needed to name him officially as our building
22 code enforcement officer.
23 MR. KERRICK: Does that answer
24 your question?
25 MS. SUE SNELL: Uh-huh.
9
1 MR. KERRICK: Thank you.
2 Any other questions?
3 Call the vote.
4 Anne?
5 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
6 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
7 MS. PICKARD: Vote in favor.
8 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
9 Motion carried.
10 Next on our agenda, Resolution
11 2007-010, Guardian Inspection Services fee
12 schedule.
13 MS. SINCAVAGE: I make a motion
14 that we approve Resolution 2007-010, Guardian
15 Inspection Services fee schedule.
16 MS. PICKARD: I'll second the
17 motion.
18 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
19 Any questions or comments from the
20 board?
21 Questions or comments from the
22 public on the motion?
23 Call the vote.
24 Anne?
25 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
10
1 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
2 MS. PICKARD: Vote in favor.
3 MR. KERRICK: And I'll vote in
4 favor.
5 Motion carried.
6 Manny, do you want to hold off
7 on --
8 MR. KAPELSOHN: Yes, Item H is --
9 MS. SINCAVAGE: G.
10 MR. KAPELSOHN: Is it G?
11 MR. KERRICK: Yeah. On mine it
12 is.
13 MR. KAPELSOHN: Oh, that's why I
14 had the confusion. Mine's different from yours.
15 Okay.
16 Item G is the inter-municipal
17 agreement -- I guess I had a draft of this
18 agenda, not the final form -- inter-municipal
19 agreement with regard to building codes. As I
20 think the board is aware, there was a
21 Commonwealth court decision a few months back
22 that raises an issue of whether municipalities
23 are allowed to specify one inspection service as
24 the sole service serving the township or whether
25 developers and owners can have other inspectors
11
1 inspect their projects as they're being built.
2 PSATS has taken one position on
3 this. This inter-municipal agreement with
4 regard to building code inspection and
5 enforcement is, I think, affected by that
6 Commonwealth Court decision.
7 I would suggest you table these,
8 please, to give me a week or so to do some legal
9 research on it because I wouldn't want the
10 township to take a step which might turn out to
11 be inadvisable or, in fact, contrary to the
12 court's decision.
13 So I would ask that you table
14 this, please.
15 MS. SINCAVAGE: So moved.
16 MS. PICKARD: Second.
17 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
18 Any questions or comments from the
19 public?
20 Call the vote.
21 Anne?
22 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
23 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
24 MS. PICKARD: Vote in favor.
25 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
12
1 Motion carried.
2 Next on our agenda, building code
3 appeals board appointment.
4 Does the board have anyone that
5 would be interested in putting on the appeals
6 board, the Tobyhanna representative from
7 Tobyhanna?
8 MS. PICKARD: Make a motion we
9 appoint N.V. Keiper to the building codes
10 appeals board.
11 MR. KERRICK: Motion on the floor.
12 Do we have a second?
13 MS. SINCAVAGE: I'll second the
14 motion.
15 MR. KERRICK: Questions or
16 comments from the board?
17 Questions or comments from the
18 public on the motion?
19 Call the vote.
20 Anne?
21 MS. SINCAVAGE: I vote in favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
23 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
24 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
25 Motion carried.
13
1 Next on our agenda, Resolution
2 2007-011, Caughbaugh Road speed limits. If you
3 recall, years ago the zoning hearing board put a
4 speed limit on of 10 miles an hour for trucks.
5 We need at least -- we can't have a speed limit
6 that low for liquid fuels. If you look at the
7 resolution, we're proposing 25 miles an hour for
8 vehicles 21,000 pounds and less, and anything
9 over would be the 10 miles --
10 MR. KAPELSOHN: 15, isn't it?
11 MR. KERRICK: No, it's 25 miles
12 per hour for the entire length and 10 miles an
13 hour for trucks over 21,000 pounds. And that
14 satisfies the zoning hearing board.
15 What's the board's pleasure?
16 MS. PICKARD: I'll make a motion
17 that we approve Resolution 2007-011.
18 MS. SINCAVAGE: I'll second the
19 motion.
20 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
21 Questions or comments?
22 Questions or comments from the
23 public on the motion?
24 Call the vote.
25 Anne?
14
1 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
2 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
3 MS. PICKARD: I'll vote in favor.
4 MR. KERRICK: And I'll vote in
5 favor.
6 Motion carried.
7 Next item, Pinecrest Phase 1C,
8 letter of credit reduction.
9 MR. DONALD HANNIG: That's us.
10 MR. KERRICK: No, no, Pinecrest.
11 You want to go now?
12 Let me finish Pinecrest, I already
13 got it started.
14 MS. PICKARD: I'll make a motion
15 that we approve the letter of credit reduction
16 for $46,736 for Pinecrest Lake Phase 1C.
17 MR. KERRICK: We're reducing it by
18 46,000 or are we reducing it to?
19 MS. PICKARD: Reducing it by
20 46,736.
21 MR. KERRICK: Okay.
22 MS. SINCAVAGE: I'll second the
23 motion.
24 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second.
25 Manny, do you have anything on
15
1 that?
2 MR. KAPELSOHN: Just a question.
3 Has the township engineer -- I assume the
4 township engineer has recommended that
5 reduction?
6 MR. KERRICK: Yes.
7 MR. KAPELSOHN: And that's in his
8 letter of May 8, 2007?
9 Thank you.
10 MR. KERRICK: Questions or
11 comments from the public on the motion?
12 Call the vote.
13 Anne?
14 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
15 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
16 MS. PICKARD: Vote in favor.
17 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
18 Motion carried.
19 Now we'll jump back to Keswick
20 Pointe.
21 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Okay. Good
22 evening, everyone. Don Hannig, Development,
23 LLC. We come before you tonight having received
24 conditioned approval from the planning
25 commission for Phase 1 of the Keswick Pointe
16
1 subdivision. And we wanted to come before this
2 body tonight to bring clarity or closure to some
3 of the outstanding items and also give you an
4 update as to where some of the outstanding items
5 remain so that we don't slowly chew through our
6 remaining list here and head toward an approval
7 for the project.
8 I am -- we have not received
9 another engineer's review letter so I'm assuming
10 that we're still working off of the comments
11 that were provided by the township's engineer to
12 the planning commission in his review letter
13 which was submitted or dated March 30, 2007.
14 With that we did submit further
15 information and I believe that we have satisfied
16 most of or all of Bob McHale's remaining
17 township engineering issues. And now what
18 remains, in our eyes, are all the outside agency
19 issues: The NPDS permits, highway occupancy
20 permits, water system, et cetera.
21 And with me tonight is Casey
22 Cawley who is from Riley Associates and I've
23 asked Casey just to run through some of those
24 briefly with you. Before he jumps into that,
25 this is for Mr. Kapelsohn, I understand that the
17
1 deed restrictions and covenants, which was Item
2 No. 1 on the review letter, has been completed
3 to satisfaction?
4 MR. KAPELSOHN: Is this the
5 document entitled Declaration of Protective
6 Covenants and Easements?
7 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Yes.
8 MR. KAPELSOHN: And if it's the
9 item that Charles M. Hannig e-mailed to me on
10 April 12, 2007, I have a few comments on it.
11 They're minor. They're more in the way of --
12 almost in the nature of proofreading changes and
13 typos. Only a few have any significance and I
14 would give you those changes tonight. If he
15 could -- or someone at your end could
16 incorporate them or talk to me about them, I
17 think we're about ready to go.
18 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Okay.
19 MR. KAPELSOHN: Is there a way you
20 can -- it's my only copy of it.
21 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Fax a copy
22 back to you?
23 MR. KAPELSOHN: Yes. Can you do
24 that?
25 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Yep.
18
1 MR. KAPELSOHN: Thanks a lot.
2 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Okay. Some of
3 the other items still remaining, we assume that
4 it's acceptable that we can post a letter of
5 credit right before the approval or as we get
6 closer to the approval process. We still have a
7 comment that financial securities has not been
8 provided and that letter of credit will be
9 provided just prior to final approval, as we get
10 closer to obtaining our outside agency
11 approvals.
12 MR. KAPELSOHN: I believe that's
13 acceptable.
14 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Okay. Thank
15 you.
16 The one thing we're looking for
17 were maintenance agreements or sample
18 maintenance agreements from the township --
19 MR. KAPELSOHN: Charles Hannig
20 submitted a proposed developers agreement which
21 Bob McHale, the township engineer, and I have
22 both looked at. Mr. McHale and I have talked
23 and have shared some model agreements of that
24 sort within the last week. We would like to
25 develop a slightly different form of agreement
19
1 and have it become a standard township
2 agreement.
3 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Sure.
4 MR. KAPELSOHN: We have agreed
5 that we'll speak to each other about that within
6 the next couple of days. So I think within the
7 next week or ten days we'll have a standard form
8 agreement to send you back which will probably
9 incorporate what you've provided and maybe have
10 some additional provisions as well.
11 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Okay.
12 MR. KAPELSOHN: So we're getting
13 close on that but we're not quite there yet.
14 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Okay. Great.
15 Thank you. And with that, I'll turn the floor
16 over to Casey for comment.
17 MR. CASEY CAWLEY: We've submitted
18 plans in response to the March 10 letter and of
19 the items that required response or were not
20 resolved. I believe we covered a few there,
21 items that were submitted to the solicitor, the
22 declaration of protective covenants and
23 easements, the sewage collection demands, system
24 management agreement, and then there was a
25 third, the memo of understanding and agreement
20
1 for Maple Road.
2 There were also outside agency
3 permits that are pending or have been obtained.
4 E&S approval has been obtained, April 6 was the
5 date of that. We've submitted the water supply
6 permit application and supplemented that
7 recently with the business plan that DEP
8 requires for that. So that is pending their
9 review.
10 HOP and traffic study, we recently
11 received comments from PennDOT and we're in the
12 process of addressing those and making a
13 resubmission. We've received our Pocono Lake
14 Preserve emergency action plan. We've then
15 added -- that was a request that we've added
16 too. The NPDS permit -- as the E&S plan was
17 approved they forwarded the information to DEP
18 for their review process, so that's in the
19 process of review now.
20 And we encroach on the Williams
21 pipeline right-of-way on our site for emergency
22 access road to be used by emergency vehicles.
23 We've come to an agreement with them as well.
24 They did have one condition with their agreement
25 and that was that we put a certain sign on the
21
1 fence and provide an interlocking lock system
2 where only Williams and emergency access
3 vehicles could get through the gate. And we've
4 also executed a reimbursement agreement, that
5 they require to have money up front to do
6 inspections and that sort of thing during
7 construction.
8 With the outstanding items, we
9 talked about the financial securities. There
10 was also an EDU issue that Hannig was working
11 with the township, to secure the required EDU
12 for this project.
13 MR. KAPELSOHN: And you understand
14 that the Sewer Tapping Fee Ordinance No. 459,
15 which was passed this evening -- I'm not sure
16 you were in the room yet --
17 MR. CASEY CAWLEY: No, I was not.
18 MR. KAPELSOHN: Okay. That was
19 passed tonight and that provides, among other
20 things, for an increase in the tapping fees per
21 EDU --
22 MR. CASEY CAWLEY: Okay.
23 MR. KAPELSOHN: -- to take effect
24 30 days from tonight's date. So I think
25 definitely your company wants to be aware of
22
1 that because this is the 30 days in which you
2 can purchase those EDUs before the rate goes up.
3 MR. CASEY CAWLEY: Okay.
4 MR. KAPELSOHN: And I know that
5 Mr. Hannig and I had several discussions about
6 that and this is the date you want to mark.
7 MR. CASEY CAWLEY: Okay. Thanks.
8 And in this letter there was some
9 outstanding technical comments made by Bob
10 McHale which I responded to and covered part of
11 in our last planning commission meeting. And so
12 they have been satisfied, but a new letter has
13 not been issued. So that's it.
14 MR. KAPELSOHN: Will you be here
15 at the end of the meeting?
16 MR. CASEY CAWLEY: Yeah, if I need
17 to be.
18 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Yeah. Yeah.
19 MR. KAPELSOHN: If I could just
20 talk to you on a couple of these issues.
21 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Sure. We'll
22 stick around. We're working through the final
23 issues here with the outside agencies. Again,
24 we'll check with Bob to see if he has any
25 remaining township issues, which we believe have
23
1 all been satisfied per his comments; but yeah,
2 right now it's at our outside agencies. And
3 we'll work with you, Mr. Kapelsohn, to finalize
4 those agreements perhaps before next month's
5 meeting.
6 MR. KAPELSOHN: Good.
7 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Okay. Thank
8 you all for your time.
9 Does anyone have any questions?
10 MR. KERRICK: Not at this time.
11 Thank you for your update.
12 MR. DONALD HANNIG: Thanks.
13 MR. KERRICK: Next on our agenda,
14 Pocono Manor planning module.
15 Manny, I turn this over to you.
16 MR. KAPELSOHN: Ken, may I ask --
17 I was in court all day today up until I came up
18 here. I think you sent me an additional e-mail
19 today, did you?
20 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: Yeah, there
21 was a copy of it.
22 MR. KAPELSOHN: I haven't seen it
23 yet.
24 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: We've been
25 busy all day on this project. We almost had to
24
1 give Andy from Borton-Lawson to inspect
2 (inaudible.)
3 My name is Ken Malkemes with
4 Borton-Lawson Engineering. We've had a flurry
5 of activities, you all know, in the last several
6 days on trying to wrap up this planning module.
7 I did, as Mr. Kapelsohn indicated, send an
8 e-mail to the board late today with the results
9 of my review.
10 And there were various technical
11 and maybe procedural or certainly oversights
12 that occurred as a result of relatively
13 incomplete documents they furnished not only to
14 our office but also to the township. A lot of
15 that was remedied this afternoon and this
16 morning.
17 We've reviewed what the developer
18 submitted, although I do have to say so that the
19 board is aware of it, that as we stand here
20 tonight there really is not a set of documents
21 that is in one place; but we believe in good
22 faith the developer will provide those.
23 To keep this short, and I can
24 certainly go through it item by item, the large
25 majority of these things after this e-mail were
25
1 sent and have been looked at by the developer
2 and he's agreed to fix these. I've seen some
3 faxes where they are corrected; and Andy and
4 Jim, correct me if I'm saying something that I
5 don't understand correctly, but just to get on
6 the ones that are still a little bit open that
7 hopefully we can resolve tonight.
8 We are going -- we had requested
9 in our Comment 5, under the PADP Module
10 Component 3, to have some type of a schematic
11 plan at least of these off-site facilities for
12 snowmaking. Not so much for this board's --
13 well, it's pretty well aware where Camelback is
14 and how you'd have to get there, but for the
15 DEP's benefit and the public's benefit, if
16 somebody wants to review this they can see that.
17 And Andy has agreed to provide that.
18 It's very schematic at the present
19 time, not as much detail, but at least they'll
20 present the general picture of how they intend
21 to provide an effluent pipeline for that flow.
22 Beyond that, there is an issue
23 with PINDY search results which is the
24 environmental reviews. The developers
25 representing -- and Andy, I'm sure, will speak
26
1 to this and these resolved -- everything. We
2 don't have the paper trail in that document
3 which would really tell us, so I can't
4 independently verify that.
5 It's not really an issue that
6 speaks to sewage and sewage planning, it's a
7 requirement that that be in there for the DEP
8 and I can't certify that. So that may come back
9 from DEP if they don't feel it's certified to
10 their satisfaction.
11 They have resolved everything with
12 DC&R. It's not clear whether or not the Fish
13 and Wildlife folks have signed off on
14 everything, planning commission and fish and
15 boat. Andy indicates that they did not have
16 anything to resolve; however, those documents
17 aren't physically in that package for us to see.
18 We talked in some length the last
19 time I was here about the storage volumes and
20 the capacity there, sort of the doomsday
21 scenario, what if none of this works out the way
22 they envision it from a flow standpoint. And
23 we've reviewed those calcs and now it appears
24 they have a safety factor of approximately one
25 and a half times the storage volume that they
27
1 need based on the sign, you know, to account for
2 an unusual event.
3 And that's based on the operating
4 levels, that they're allowed to design in these
5 various storage lagoons that they have. There's
6 free board in those lagoons so the real ultimate
7 capacity is almost the safety factor of 2.5
8 times what they need. So they have two and a
9 half times more than they think their maximum
10 volume would ever be, based on their design.
11 So at this stage of the game we're
12 recommending, you know, that's probably not --
13 that the horse has been ridden far enough and
14 they'll have to substantiate their design for
15 DEP when they go to get their actual permit use
16 for this facility. It appears viable. This is
17 the bottom line. It doesn't appear that it's a,
18 you know, pig and the pope, so to speak.
19 Plot plans we just got this
20 afternoon. Andy and I looked at them together
21 this afternoon. They're really -- most of the
22 comments related to the plot plans really,
23 again, were not substantive to the sewage issues
24 so Andy's agreed that they can be resolved and
25 then I don't see that there's any reason to
28
1 doubt that, that it will create an issue
2 overall.
3 MR. KAPELSOHN: Ken?
4 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: Yes.
5 MR. KAPELSOHN: If I can take you
6 back one item. I'm not an engineer so forgive
7 the ignorance of this question, but the lagoons
8 that have two and a half times the expected
9 maximum volume as a capacity, if they are filled
10 to two and a half times that volume, do they
11 have the strength to maintain that?
12 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: Yeah. And
13 Andy could probably speak of it better. They're
14 generally depressed areas. They're not --
15 MR. KAPELSOHN: They're not dike
16 areas?
17 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: They're not
18 embankment areas. I think it's -- so there
19 really isn't any really structural issues or
20 concerns.
21 MR. KAPELSOHN: Thank you.
22 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: It's just
23 that you can't design for that. You need to
24 allow that free board in there based on the DEP
25 regulation, and that's assuming that there's no
29
1 discharge anywhere. And there'll certainly be
2 some.
3 MR. KAPELSOHN: Right.
4 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: So really,
5 if you really make the math project out of this,
6 you could probably justify a much bigger number.
7 That's strictly looking at volumes, assuming
8 that the whole thing is just shut down and it's
9 receiving water and can't discharge it. So it's
10 fairly conservative even at this stage of the
11 game, I would think.
12 Where the issues are at this
13 point, there's one relatively minor issue that
14 I'd like Andy to at least explain to the board
15 whether or not this is considered expansion of
16 the existing facility versus a new facility, the
17 sewage treatment plant itself. We felt that it
18 may be more appropriate to indicate it's a new
19 facility because when the old facility is
20 actually decommissioned and the new treatment
21 method and everything else is installed it will
22 look like a new facility.
23 There are some permit issues
24 apparently that I'll let Andy speak to. It's
25 really not a township issue, it's a DEP call
30
1 anyway as to what the proper way to fill that
2 out is, but you should at least be aware of what
3 that issue is.
4 The other issue I guess we spoke
5 about, the PINDY, which Andy, if you could
6 address that. Beyond that the last remaining
7 thing to be resolved is really the sewage
8 management program which Attorney Kapelsohn and
9 Attorney Wolfe have been working on a draft of
10 that.
11 MR. KAPELSOHN: And you too.
12 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: Yes, and me
13 too. So really we're down to really one issue
14 that's probably not resolved and that's the
15 sewage management program, and then a couple of
16 things that Andy is going to speak to, that I
17 don't think that recommended that -- you know,
18 recommend we hold this up because of those being
19 gray area type issues.
20 MR. KAPELSOHN: I don't know what
21 the status of your items, other than the sewer
22 management agreement, is, and whether it should
23 be held up or not for that. That's your area.
24 On the agreement, as you know,
25 Attorney Wolfe had sent me a proposed agreement.
31
1 You and I have had some e-mails back and forth
2 last week, this week. I've also talked to Bob
3 McHale about it, as recently as today. We have
4 a few items that still need to be resolved; I
5 think they need to be resolved. I think they
6 will be within the next week; but I have to get
7 Attorney Wolfe -- I have to incorporate your
8 comments and the things that Bob and I have been
9 talking about and get Attorney Wolfe a draft to
10 look at. So I expect by the end of this week
11 we'll have that ironed out.
12 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: And on our
13 end the biggest problem we have at the moment is
14 really administratively, since we don't really
15 have a hard set of documents that we can put in
16 front of you and say here's what we've reviewed
17 in total and it's ready for you to sign.
18 So my recommendation, if you chose
19 to act on this even conditionally -- I think
20 what we should probably do is, there's a fair
21 administrative component as to what the right
22 boxes are in the township needs to check to
23 execute these documents.
24 I'd recommend that when they
25 submit everything, to catch up with all the
32
1 things they've agreed to do here, that they send
2 them to our office first. We can fill them all
3 out except for the signatures and then send up
4 the appropriate number of copies here so that --
5 with the cover letter, you'll just execute it
6 and we'll have to tag on where you need to sign
7 it and we won't get bogged down with an
8 administrative thing.
9 MR. KAPELSOHN: What's your
10 expected time frame for that?
11 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: One week.
12 MR. KAPELSOHN: And that's about
13 the time that I think will be needed to finalize
14 the sewer management agreement. I would
15 recommend, at least with regard to the sewer
16 management agreement, I think it's significant,
17 I think it's important and I think we're far
18 enough from a finished document at this point
19 that I would say that we're not in a position
20 for me to recommend that you conditionally
21 approve anything.
22 There's not an agreement capable
23 of being conditionally approved at this point.
24 I think we need the week. And I hate to hold
25 things up, but I believe that's the current
33
1 state of things between Mr. Malkemes, myself,
2 Mr. McHale and Attorney Wolfe.
3 MR. KERRICK: The 21st, two weeks
4 from today?
5 MR. KAPELSOHN: I won't be here
6 then, but if we have an agreement I can tell you
7 in advance --
8 MR. KERRICK: You're not good the
9 21st?
10 MR. KAPELSOHN: Excuse me?
11 MR. KERRICK: You're not good the
12 21st?
13 MR. KAPELSOHN: I'm no good that
14 week. I'll be out of town on business. But if
15 we have an agreement worked out by the end of
16 this week, I can tell you that it's good to go.
17 I don't necessarily --
18 MS. PICKARD: Will that be enough
19 time?
20 MR. KERRICK: Is that safe to
21 schedule on the 21st?
22 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: For us? Yes.
23 The sooner they can work out the agreement,
24 we'll have -- I've already committed to my
25 client and Ken that I'd have this thing wrapped
34
1 up by the end of the week. And then to point
2 that to the majority of these document's created
3 in our Philadelphia office which handles, you
4 know, all of our waste water stuff, but we're
5 down to nipity (phonetic) stuff. We're going to
6 do that out of the Wilkes-Barre office which is,
7 you know, five miles from here. We'll keep
8 shuttling people over, annoy him for the rest of
9 the week until we're done.
10 MR. KERRICK: So it's safe to
11 schedule a meeting for 9 a.m. on the 21st?
12 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: Sure.
13 MR. KERRICK: Okay with you, Ken?
14 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: I believe
15 so.
16 MS. PICKARD: We need to get Panko
17 to tentatively schedule it for 9 a.m. on the
18 21st.
19 MR. KERRICK: Let's tentatively
20 schedule it for 9 a.m., the 21st. Okay?
21 Anything else?
22 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: One thing I
23 should just point out, Manny, the resolution of
24 what that management program looks like will
25 affect some of the things that you need to write
35
1 in your document. So you wouldn't want to
2 finish yours on Friday because he has a
3 paragraph --
4 MR. KAPELSOHN: Did you send me
5 some comments on the bond amount discussion that
6 we had yet?
7 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: That was in
8 that original e-mail from two or three days ago.
9 MR. KAPELSOHN: Okay. Friday's?
10 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: Yeah.
11 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: Well, as Ken
12 stated, most of the things we have in there are
13 basically what I call small administrative
14 tasks. The one issue that I'd like to discuss
15 is the classification of the treatment plant
16 which is in the Component 3 document.
17 In our opinion, we do a lot of
18 these distance and expansion existing plants,
19 classified as a new plant, which I understand
20 what Ken's position is, is basically saying that
21 you're going to need to get a new stream
22 discharge permit which we don't.
23 So because of that, that's what --
24 you know, if you're going to create a new plant,
25 you call it a new plant, you get new stream
36
1 discharge permit. We're not getting a new
2 discharge permit. We have the same one and
3 we're utilizing the same discharge point. So we
4 are expanding the existing facility, and to some
5 extent it doesn't really matter what Ken and I
6 say. It will come down to the DEP and their
7 classification of it anyway.
8 In terms of PINDY, I have a copy,
9 which is in the component, which is our
10 clearance from DC&R. We do not have
11 documentation from Fish and Wildlife, but that
12 is not uncommon. We have clearance from DC&R
13 and, again, that's almost an issue also for DEP.
14 They won't provide us a document if they think
15 that we need to get an official letter from U.S.
16 Fish and Wildlife. We'll have to track it at
17 that time.
18 Given the -- you know, the status
19 of the document for this board, I don't think
20 that it's necessary to have the U.S. Fish and
21 Wildlife at hand because the DC&R basically
22 should take care of that.
23 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: And they
24 have that correspondence from Fish and Wildlife.
25 It's not like we have, you know, no contact. So
37
1 it's in the process, I guess, is the best you
2 can could say.
3 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: Right. They
4 are a very slow organization, and sometimes you
5 get paperwork back and sometimes you don't, you
6 know. That's for the state to decide how much
7 they want to press in at the end to get the
8 paperwork.
9 In regards to Camelback, we've
10 talked extensively with Ken today and we don't
11 need Camelback to make the system work. We're
12 utilizing it so that we don't have to store as
13 much in the winter. It's not a necessity for
14 us. We're happy to provide that document,
15 that we already have graphical depictions of
16 where the lime might go. We're going to proceed
17 with that. This is a planning document.
18 Once we get to the point where we
19 need to design this, the state then looks at our
20 Part 2 design process and we'll go into further
21 detail at that point. So I don't believe that's
22 an extremely big issue either.
23 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: If I could
24 just clarify that.
25 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: Sure.
38
1 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: When Andy
2 says they don't need it, there's a Plan B,
3 essentially to the documents as submitted. If
4 you built it that way, you would need the
5 discharge of Camelback. The alternative for
6 them is, if for some reason the Camelback
7 arrangement falls through, they would have to
8 provide more storage and lagoons other than
9 what's shown in the module on their own
10 property, to manage this volumetric difference.
11 But there appears to be sufficient
12 space on the 3,000 acres to be able to do that;
13 is that correct?
14 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: One would
15 hope.
16 MR. KENNETH L. MALKEMES: So when
17 he says it's not absolutely required, it's
18 corrected; but based on the documents in front
19 of you, it would be required. If for some
20 reason, though, they can't follow their plan,
21 then the DEP would determine whether or not they
22 would have to go to the planning module. Or if
23 there was a minor variance, probably not, and
24 then to proceed in their design phase to make
25 those adjustments and keep moving.
39
1 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: And we've had
2 extensive discussions with the DEP regarding
3 that issue. And they understand that we're
4 going to have to modify or expand the existing
5 ponds, as needed in the design process. It
6 won't be an issue during the planning module
7 process; it would be something that
8 happens during this time.
9 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: So all that
10 being said, I think our recommendation, if I had
11 enough time to write one before I came up here,
12 would be that these things, you know, on good
13 faith could be corrected here in the next week
14 by the developer. And what's really outstanding
15 is the sewage management program and what that
16 looks like.
17 MR. KAPELSOHN: Do I gather from
18 what the two of you have said that you don't
19 have any major problem with it being classified
20 as the expansion of an existing facility?
21 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: No.
22 There's -- it's a gray area. And ultimately, as
23 Andy indicated, it really is DEP's call. I
24 mean, if you shut the wrong box, they're going
25 to make you fix it, you know? Throughout their
40
1 document, actually, one of the reasons why we
2 chose to make a comment was that throughout the
3 document they talk about the new plan that will
4 take the place of the old one eventually.
5 So it drove it more to the side of
6 wanting to have that box checked than leaving it
7 alone, from our perspective; but as Andy
8 indicated, it does create some issues
9 permit-wise for them that they wouldn't
10 otherwise have or may not otherwise need to
11 address.
12 So we don't have a strong issue
13 but, again, the DEP is going to understand when
14 they look at that module, what's being done
15 there, Box A is checked or Box B. It's really
16 not a township issue. It's just so you're aware
17 of it, in case somebody questions you as to why
18 the box was checked. Believe me, if the DEP
19 doesn't like it, they'll let you know.
20 MR. ANDREW BENNETT: If there's
21 one thing that's gray, is DEP's nomenclature.
22 And as Ken indicated, the key for us, I think,
23 is not getting our portion done, but resolving
24 the management issues that we can incorporate
25 into the document.
41
1 MR. KAPELSOHN: That's partly
2 Ken's job too.
3 MR. KENNETH MALKEMES: I thought I
4 finished that, Manny, with this e-mail.
5 MR. KERRICK: I have one question
6 for you, Jim. Do we need an executed additional
7 time waiver?
8 MR. JAMES CAHILL: I believe you
9 do. I think it expires tomorrow.
10 MR. KERRICK: We have one here,
11 the 14th of June, you'd be acceptable to that?
12 MR. JAMES CAHILL: I'd prefer to
13 do it the 22nd and see what happens on the 21st.
14 MR. KAPELSOHN: Do you want to
15 make it to --
16 MR. KERRICK: That would be our
17 next meeting.
18 MR. KAPELSOHN: Right. You want
19 to make it to May 22?
20 MR. JAMES CAHILL: That's fine
21 with me.
22 MR. KERRICK: We have a special
23 meeting on the 21st.
24 (Discussion off the record.)
25 MR. KAPELSOHN: See if that meets
42
1 with your approval.
2 MR. JAMES CAHILL: Yeah, I can
3 sign it.
4 MR. KERRICK: Can we go or do you
5 want to wait?
6 MR. KAPELSOHN: He's going to sign
7 it and give it back to me.
8 MR. KERRICK: Do we have a motion
9 to accept the time waiver?
10 MS. SINCAVAGE: I'll make a
11 motion.
12 MS. PICKARD: Second the motion.
13 MR. KAPELSOHN: Motion to accept
14 the time waiver being offered by Pocono Manor
15 Investors and including May 22, 2007.
16 MR. KERRICK: Any questions or
17 comments from the public?
18 Call the vote.
19 Anne?
20 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
22 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
23 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
24 Motion carried.
25 Thank you, gentlemen. We'll see
43
1 you on the 21st, at 9 a.m.
2 Next item on our agenda is
3 Resolution 2007-012, appointing Phyllis Haase,
4 our zoning officer, as our code enforcement
5 official.
6 MS. PICKARD: So moved.
7 MS. SINCAVAGE: Second.
8 MR. KERRICK: Questions or
9 comments?
10 Questions or comments from the
11 public on the motion?
12 MR. KAPELSOHN: For the sake of
13 clarification, this is code enforcement other
14 than building code for which Mr. Weber was --
15 MR. KERRICK: That is correct.
16 Call the vote.
17 Anne?
18 MS. SINCAVAGE: Vote in favor.
19 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
20 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
21 MR. KERRICK: I vote in favor.
22 Motion carried.
23 You're a little late. That's the
24 last thing on our agenda.
25 One housekeeping item. We had a
44
1 resignation last week from one of our
2 supervisors and we are taking resumes from
3 people that are interested and that would be for
4 another week, and then we have a two-week
5 period. We have to fill it within 30 days.
6 MR. KERRICK: At this time, do you
7 have anything else?
8 MR. KAPELSOHN: No.
9 MR. KERRICK: Does the public have
10 anything to discuss with the board? Anyone from
11 the public?
12 I'm really sorry.
13 We're adjourned. Thanks for
14 coming.
15 (Meeting concluded at 7:44 p.m.)
16 ---
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7 I hereby certify that the
8 proceedings and evidence are contained fully and
9 accurately, to the best of my ability, in the
10 notes taken by me at the meeting in the above
11 matter; and that the foregoing is a true and
12 correct transcript of the same.
13
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15 ______________________
16 EVILYS E. BRATHWAITE
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