Before
THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
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In Re: Public hearing regarding the zoning map
change application of Management Accounting
and Consulting Services, Inc. representing
Creek View Estates.
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Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
State Avenue
Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
Monday, January 14, 2008 beginning at 6:08 p.m.
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PRESENT: JOHN E. KERRICK, Chairperson
HEIDI A. PICKARD, Vice-Chairperson
HUGH LAMBERTON, Board Member
JAMIE B. KEENER, Board Member
DONALD J. MOYER, Board Member
JOHN B. RICE, ESQUIRE, Solicitor
ALSO PRESENT: PATRICK M. ARMSTRONG, ESQUIRE
PHYLLIS HAASE, Zoning Officer
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PANKO REPORTING
537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
(570) 421-3620
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1 MR. KERRICK: I'd like to welcome
2 everyone here this evening for the purposes of
3 public hearing. We actually have two public
4 hearings. First public hearing will be on the
5 zoning map change application. At this time I'd
6 like to turn the hearing over to our solicitor,
7 John Rice.
8 Mr. Rice?
9 MR. RICE: Is there someone here for
10 the applicant, for the zoning map change?
11 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: Yes.
12 MR. RICE: Let me just briefly
13 explain what we're going to do with this. This has
14 been advertised, zoning map change for a piece of
15 property in the township. The applicant is MAC
16 Services, Inc. The tax parcel is 19-20-2-36. The
17 development is Creek View Estates. The proposal is
18 simply to align adjacent commercial property lines
19 and to increase the commercial zoning on this
20 particular piece of property.
21 The public hearing has been
22 advertised for tonight. What I would like to do
23 is, first of all, to ask the applicant, do you
24 folks plan to testify in this hearing, anyone over
25 there?
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1 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: Yes, I
2 will.
3 MR. RICE: Okay. Then what I would
4 like to do is, have you sworn in. If you can state
5 your name, your address, what your position is with
6 the applicant and then we'll have the court
7 reporter swear you in.
8 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: I am
9 Charles Unangst with Hanover Engineering. I am the
10 project engineer, and that's pretty much it.
11 MR. RICE: Okay, Mr. Unangst.
12 (Charles H. Unangst, PE, was duly
13 sworn.)
14 MR. RICE: Mr. Unangst, if you could
15 briefly explain what the proposal is before the
16 township. Do you have some maps or something with
17 you?
18 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: Okay.
19 I do have a map, it's called Rezoning Option 2.
20 And the layout of the watts and the configured
21 lines are the same as on the drawing that is on the
22 board. Would anyone like a reduced copy? I have a
23 number of extras.
24 And with that, the existing Creek
25 View property is the entire approximately
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1 a-hundred-fifteen-acre site. That's on the west
2 side of Route 115. Let me make sure that acreage
3 is correct. I believe that's what the full site
4 is. And what we have gone through the township
5 with is a subdivision to -- let me step back.
6 The existing zoning line between the
7 commercial and the residential is to the west side
8 of the lot labeled as Lot No. 1; that's their
9 current zoning line between -- the commercial is
10 between that line and Route 115 and everything to
11 the west of that line is the R-2 District.
12 If you look up to the north or the
13 upper part of the page, there is a piece of
14 property that we have labeled as the Blakeslee
15 Corners property, and you can see a small portion
16 of the western property line of that portion
17 extending from our property straight up the page.
18 That's their western property line, that is the
19 existing commercial line on the adjoining property.
20 So the existing commercial line on the property to
21 the north is approximately 400 feet west of the
22 commercial line on our property.
23 And what we are proposing to do or
24 what we'd like to request to do is, to move the
25 commercial line on the Creek View Estates property
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1 to line up with that line of the Blakeslee Corners
2 and that property line straight down through our
3 parcel to our southern tract line, which then to
4 the south of that is property owned by the
5 township. That would create the new zoning line at
6 the location that's shown on that drawing.
7 Now, with the -- we've gone through
8 the township for the minor subdivision and in
9 some -- trying to foresee this and trying to plan
10 ahead, we've proposed and had approved a new
11 property line at the location that we are proposing
12 now to request for the rezoning to coincide with.
13 So there is a property line there;
14 that plan has been approved. I honestly don't know
15 if the plan was recorded yet, but we've provided
16 the documents to the township, the plans, signed
17 and sealed, for recording. We have final approval
18 on that. And that is the plan that's hung up on
19 this board. So anyway, there is a property line
20 there -- or there is an approved property line
21 there.
22 And, again, we're requesting that
23 the zoning line between the C, commercial, and the
24 R-2 gets pushed from the current location westward,
25 approximately 500 feet to the new property line.
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1 MR. RICE: Excuse me, the plan that
2 you're referring to, that's a plan that you drew;
3 is that correct?
4 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: Okay,
5 the plan that is on the board, the township put
6 this plan on the board; this was here when we came
7 in. We did draw this plan. This plan is called
8 the preliminary/minor -- preliminary/final plan
9 minor subdivision Creek View Estates, Sheet 1 of 1.
10 MR. RICE: What's the date on that?
11 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST: It was
12 dated May 16 of 2007 and last revised November 6 of
13 2007.
14 MR. RICE: And that includes the
15 area that's being -- the request is directed at, it
16 coincides with the subdivision plan that was
17 previously approved by the township?
18 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: That is
19 correct.
20 MR. RICE: So an additional 23 and a
21 half acres that would be rezoned from R-2 to
22 commercial?
23 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: That is
24 correct.
25 MR. RICE: Is there anything else
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1 you want to tell the board such as why this should
2 be granted by the board?
3 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: Well,
4 what we are looking to do is, with the rezoning --
5 again, the current rezoning -- or the current
6 commercial site along the frontage of 115 is
7 approximately 25.6 acres. This would add onto an
8 additional 23.4 acres roughly, which comes out to
9 about 49 -- right around 49 acres. That would
10 leave an 87-acre residential tract to the west.
11 Now, there has been some
12 discussions, my understanding, between the
13 landowner and the township for possible purchase to
14 create open space, but that is -- I can't talk to
15 that, other than I've heard that and that has been
16 discussed at public meetings so --
17 MR. RICE: I just have a question.
18 I'm not all that familiar with that property, but
19 the R-2 piece, it gets left over, if that gets
20 developed for a residential use, how does
21 access get to it?
22 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: Very
23 good point. With the subdivision we were required
24 to provide an access off of 115 through the
25 existing commercial and then the Lot 2 is what we
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1 were calling the additional lot in between, and
2 we're looking to rezone as commercial. So there is
3 a -- it's covered under an agreement and also shown
4 on the drawing at an approximate location, an
5 access coming off of 115 to enter or to serve Lot
6 3.
7 Also, with that, there are rights
8 with that as an easement and such to, for utilities
9 and such if need be, to serve that property.
10 MR. RICE: Does the board have any
11 questions for --
12 MR. KEENER: Just one comment, you
13 just talked about the access which is provided for
14 the -- in the approved subdivision plan, but it's
15 not shown on the Rezoning Option 2 exhibit that was
16 provided. And I don't know if that's going to be
17 part of the hearing.
18 MR. RICE: Well, there are -- I
19 mean, basically it's on the subdivision plan. So
20 once that gets recorded, that will be locked in.
21 The zoning is just -- this request is just to
22 change the zoning designation.
23 Is this what was filed with the
24 petition, the Zoning Option 2, or was there
25 something else filed?
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1 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: I
2 honestly couldn't tell you what was filed with the
3 petition.
4 MR. RICE: I mean, certainly if you
5 want to discuss the access or ask him -- I'm not
6 sure they'll know at this point until they have a
7 development proposed, what exactly that will look
8 like but --
9 MR. KEENER: No, I think legally we
10 have the access. I just don't like seeing a
11 discrepancy with the plan that's submitted,
12 although it's just for the zoning.
13 MR. RICE: You're not wiping away
14 the access if this would get approved?
15 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: And if
16 you look at the Rezoning Option 2, that was a
17 concept prior to the approval of this plan, that if
18 you look there aren't even bearings and distances
19 on that line, but that line, as a condition, if the
20 board would grant that, would be along the approved
21 line with bearings and distances as shown on the
22 subdivision plan.
23 MR. KEENER: Another question I have
24 is, relative to the Bird property that's in our
25 parcel, that's really encompassed by --
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1 MS. PICKARD: It was sold, I
2 believe.
3 MR. RICE: Mr. Unangst, do you know
4 the status of that outparcel?
5 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: I do
6 not know the ownership status, but this portion in
7 here was -- shows up on your zoning map as
8 commercial. And I --
9 MR. RICE: The whole piece? Isn't
10 there a little piece that --
11 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: There's
12 a small piece to the west.
13 MR. RICE: Is that in the R-2?
14 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: That's
15 in the R-2.
16 MR. RICE: But you don't know what
17 the status of it is, whether it's been sold or
18 there are people living --
19 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: I do
20 not. I don't believe there's anyone living there,
21 no.
22 MR. RICE: No? Okay.
23 Does the board have any other
24 questions or comments? The township has received
25 some comments from the Monroe County Planning
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1 Commission. We have a letter dated January 10,
2 2008, and it -- Monroe County has several -- well,
3 a handful of comments. It is recommending that the
4 zoning map amendment be adopted subject to the
5 comments.
6 Does the board want to discuss any
7 of these comments with the applicant at this point?
8 MR. KEENER: It's relative to Item
9 6. Is it possible for us to put in a landscape
10 buffer restriction on it at this point?
11 MR. RICE: No, not at this point. I
12 think that that's going to be a land development
13 issue when someone comes in to develop the larger
14 tract. It's not something we can add to a zoning
15 amendment.
16 Let me just, for anybody that's
17 here, when the township passes zoning amendments,
18 supervisors, they act in a legislative capacity.
19 It's a little different from what they do with
20 subdivisions and land developments or conditional
21 uses or PRDs; they're more like judges when you
22 vote on those things.
23 This is a legislative decision,
24 there really isn't any appeal from an adverse
25 decision for an applicant if there's a zoning
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1 amendment denied. So it's a little different than
2 some of the other types of decisions that the
3 supervisors render, but buffers and what that
4 accessway would look like back there and their land
5 development issues, they would be dealt with once a
6 land development plan would get filed.
7 The only other comments, as I said,
8 Monroe County Planning Commission does recommend
9 adoption. And the other document which we received
10 was a -- this is a public hearing. We did receive
11 a letter from an adjacent property owner, Mr.
12 Hannig, from Spread Eagle Associates and I'll
13 just -- this is a letter dated December 20, 2007.
14 And Mr. Hannig, on behalf of the
15 Hannig Development Company, is in support of the
16 zoning amendment for basically three reasons: He
17 is developing an adjacent residential community;
18 services that would be provided in a larger
19 commercial district would be in close proximity to
20 that development, which is proposed to be
21 residential.
22 Mr. Hannig further states in his
23 letter that the rezoning would create a better
24 critical mass for commercial development planning,
25 access and design. And thirdly, he believes that
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1 aligning the depth of the commercial zone with the
2 existing commercial property lines would be in the
3 best interest of the township and there would be
4 increase in services and its tax base would be
5 increased, commercial rezoning. So that letter is
6 dated December 20, 2007. That's part of this
7 hearing.
8 Mr. Unangst, is there anything else
9 you want to add at this point?
10 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: No, not
11 really.
12 Nothing else?
13 No. Thank you.
14 MR. RICE: If the board doesn't have
15 any other comments, I would open this up then for
16 any public comment or any questions from the
17 public. This is a public hearing, an advertised
18 public hearing.
19 So is there any public comment on
20 this application and proposal?
21 Sir, please state your name and
22 address.
23 MR. JOHN HENRY: I'm John Henry. My
24 address is 1 Ice House Road, Pocono Lake Preserve,
25 18348. And I just -- Open Space Committee asked me
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1 to stop by; I'm a member of the Township Open Space
2 Committee.
3 And we'd like to go on the record as
4 saying that -- I think it's -- Parcel 3 is the
5 remaining R-2 zone, and just to remind the board
6 that part of the Open Space Committee's interest in
7 that property, it's adjacent to the (inaudible)
8 natural area, and there's pieces of that property
9 that would be a wonderful addition to the open
10 space natural area in that Parcel 3. And I don't
11 think the zoning change impacts that at all.
12 I know the committee just asked me
13 to put that on the record for tonight.
14 MR. RICE: Thank you. And that was
15 a comment from Monroe County Planning Commission
16 also in their letter of January 10.
17 Any other public comment on this
18 application?
19 Okay. What I would -- what's the
20 board's pleasure? Let me just, in terms of
21 procedure, assuming the board is inclined to
22 approve this, the next step would be for the board
23 to make a motion tonight in favor of the proposed
24 zoning map amendment and authorize our office to
25 prepare an ordinance, because this has to be done
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1 ultimately by an ordinance, which means that will
2 be advertised and there will be another public
3 hearing on that ordinance before this gets finally
4 adopted.
5 So if that's the pleasure of the
6 board or not, that would be your next step.
7 MR. KERRICK: Question. Would that
8 be done at the close of this hearing in our regular
9 or could we do it at this time?
10 MR. RICE: You could do it at this
11 time, absolutely; but we would have to -- we still
12 have to draft an ordinance referencing the tax
13 parcel. It would be a very simple ordinance,
14 pretty much boilerplate, just referencing this. I
15 probably would need a plan and a legal description
16 for the area that would be rezoned.
17 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: Sure.
18 MR. RICE: That's something the
19 township engineer is going to have to check to make
20 sure that that's accurate. That's a detail, it
21 still has to be done by an ordinance. And if the
22 board's inclined to move forward, the vote would be
23 in order to authorize so that would be done.
24 MS. PICKARD: I do have one
25 question. On the tax map parcel number, we have --
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1 I believe the plans are over here to be signed and
2 recorded for the subdivision so there may be
3 different tax map numbers assigned to those
4 parcels. I think the number that you had read
5 would probably be for the entire parcel.
6 MR. RICE: Right, but that's -- I
7 don't know how Monroe County would assign this.
8 That's all one parcel now. Probably Lot 3 would
9 remain the mother parcel, the original parcel, and
10 then they'd probably assign a new number to the
11 side two lots that are zoned commercial. But, you
12 know, we can -- as I said, there's going to need to
13 be an ordinance.
14 And if Mr. Unangst prepares a legal
15 description, that would be part of the ordinance
16 and that would be what ultimately gets put on the
17 record.
18 MR. KEENER: Mr. Chairman, I'll make
19 a motion we approve the zoning map change for Creek
20 View Estates based on the final -- or based on the
21 Rezoning Option 2 plan of 23.3527 acres from R-2 to
22 commercial, subject to the applicant providing a
23 legal description and subject to a hearing on the
24 ordinance change.
25 MR. RICE: Yeah, preparation of an
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1 ordinance and then the public hearing will deal
2 with that.
3 MR. KEENER: And is that authorizing
4 our solicitor to prepare the ordinance?
5 MR. RICE: Yes.
6 MS. PICKARD: I'll second the
7 motion.
8 MR. KERRICK: You're running the
9 hearing so you call the vote or do I call the vote?
10 There's a motion and second on the floor.
11 MR. RICE: You should call the vote.
12 MR. KERRICK: Motion and second on
13 the floor.
14 Any questions from the board?
15 Questions or comments from the
16 public on the motion?
17 Call the vote?
18 Jaime?
19 MR. KEENER: I vote in favor.
20 MR. KERRICK: Donny?
21 MR. MOYER: I vote in favor.
22 MR. KERRICK: Hugh?
23 MR. LAMBERTON: I vote in favor.
24 MR. KERRICK: Heidi?
25 MS. PICKARD: I vote in favor.
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1 MR. KERRICK: I'll vote in favor.
2 Motion carried.
3 MR. RICE: Okay. With that, this
4 hearing is closed.
5 MR. CHARLES H. UNANGST, PE: Thank
6 you, very much.
7 MR. RICE: The second matter that
8 was advertised for tonight was a hearing on a
9 proposed Pocono Manor Planned Residential
10 Development. The applicant has continued that
11 hearing, there will be no hearing on that tonight;
12 it will be readvertised for another night, the same
13 notice. And the board is not going to hold any
14 hearing on that tonight until we get another date
15 for that.
16 There is a zoning hearing board
17 matter involving that property, I believe,
18 January 30. And I assume the PRD hearing will be
19 held subsequent -- some date subsequent to that
20 zoning hearing board hearing, sometime in February
21 or possibly later. The 30th or 31st?
22 MS. PICKARD: The 31st.
23 MR. RICE: 31st, January 31 is the
24 zoning hearing board's decision.
25 MR. KERRICK: At this time we'll
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1 adjourn to 7 p.m. where we'll pick up our regular
2 business meeting. Thank you.
3 (Hearing concluded at 6:33 p.m.)
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7 I hereby certify that the
8 proceedings and evidence are contained fully and
9 accurately in the notes taken by me, to the best of
10 my ability, at the hearing in the above matter; and
11 that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript
12 of the same.
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15 ______________________
16 EVILYS E. BRATHWAITE
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