Before
THE TOBYHANNA TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION
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In Re: Regular Business Meeting
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Tobyhanna Township Government Center Building
State Avenue
Pocono Pines, Pennsylvania 18350
Thursday, January 8, 2009, beginning at 7 p.m.
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PRESENT: MARK SINCAVAGE, Chairperson
JOSEPH MILLER, Vice-Chairperson
ROBERT BAXTER, Board Member
ANNE LAMBERTON, Board Member
ROBERT McHALE, P.E.,
Township Engineer
PATRICK ARMSTRONG, ESQUIRE, Solicitor
ALSO PRESENT: PHYLLIS HAASE, Zoning Officer
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Panko Reporting
537 Sarah Street, 2nd Floor
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania 18360
(570) 421-3620
2
1 MR. SINCAVAGE: Everyone, happy
2 New Year, if I haven't already said it. I'm glad
3 to have you all here.
4 The first order of business is
5 to do a reorganizational meeting. I'm going to act
6 as the temporary chairman for the reorganizational
7 meeting. The first order of business is
8 nominations for the chair. Would you like to
9 dispense with the nominations?
10 MR. MILLER: Dispense with the
11 nominations and keep it essentially as we had it in
12 the past year.
13 MR. SINCAVAGE: Is that a
14 motion, Joe?
15 MR. MILLER: That's a motion.
16 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
17 MS. LAMBERTON: Second.
18 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
19 second. Any discussion? All in favor please say
20 aye.
21 MR. MILLER: Aye.
22 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
23 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
24 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
25 We will announce for the record
3
1 then that Mark Sincavage is chairman, Joe Miller is
2 vice chair, and Rob Baxter is secretary.
3 We need to approve the 2009
4 planning commission schedule. I think the only
5 date that was kind of a concern for us was July 2.
6 We all said we were going to be around anyhow.
7 So, are we all okay with that?
8 MR. MILLER: It wouldn't matter
9 if it was the following week. The 4th is on a
10 Saturday, so.
11 MR. SINCAVAGE: So, it's okay
12 with everyone?
13 MR. MILLER: Wait a minute.
14 When is Labor Day this year?
15 MR. SINCAVAGE: It has to be
16 after this, because it has to be the first Monday
17 of the month. So okay with the meeting schedule as
18 proposed?
19 MR. MILLER: I'll make a motion
20 that we approve the meeting schedule for 2009 as
21 presented.
22 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
23 Do I have a second to the motion?
24 MR. BAXTER: Second.
25 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
4
1 second. All those in favor please say aye.
2 MR. MILLER: Aye.
3 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
4 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
5 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye. Okay.
6 I will adjourn the reorganizational meeting.
7 Do I have any public comment in general?
8 We need approval of the November 2008 meeting
9 minutes, which we received in our packet.
10 MS. HAASE: Mr. Chairman, you
11 are aware that there are two corrections.
12 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have one
13 correction. I didn't know two.
14 MS. HAASE: Line 1 -- I'm sorry,
15 Line 1 and Line 17, where you're referred to as the
16 magistrate.
17 MR. SINCAVAGE: Jo was giving me
18 a new position. Those are the two corrections.
19 I think they are both on page 1.
20 MS. HAASE: Yes, sir, page 2.
21 MR. SINCAVAGE: Sorry, page 2.
22 Do I have a motion to approve the minutes as
23 corrected?
24 MR. MILLER: I'll make that
25 motion.
5
1 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
2 Do I have a second to the motion?
3 MR. BAXTER: Second.
4 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
5 second. All those in favor please say aye.
6 MR. MILLER: Aye.
7 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
8 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
9 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye. I will
10 announce that the board of supervisors is currently
11 accepting letters of interest for the planning
12 commission until January 28, 2009, if anyone knows
13 of anyone that would be interested in serving on
14 the board. We have not heard officially whether or
15 not Ted is going to reapply.
16 MS. HAASE: We had some dialogue
17 with his wife, but we have not spoken to him
18 personally. It was readvertised in the journal.
19 I did see it today. We are hoping we can find
20 someone with some planning background due to the
21 fact that we have intentions of amending and
22 revamping SALDO and the zoning ordinances.
23 MR. SINCAVAGE: It's standard
24 procedure, though. That doesn't mean that Ted
25 would not be reappointed, but it's standard
6
1 procedure to advertise for it. And that's what the
2 township has been doing in past years. So if
3 anyone knows anyone, please encourage them to
4 submit their resume to the board of supervisors.
5 Open projects, we have Wee-Wons
6 Day Care. Do we have any news on that? Nothing
7 new?
8 MR. McHALE: I think there's a
9 time waiver submitted.
10 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yes, I think
11 there was a time waiver submitted just recently.
12 I think it takes it to April.
13 MR. SINCAVAGE: So, we are okay
14 tabling that?
15 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yep.
16 MR. SINCAVAGE: Do I have a
17 motion to table Wee-Wons Day Care expansion land
18 development plan?
19 MR. MILLER: So moved.
20 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
21 Do I have a second to the motion?
22 MR. BAXTER: Second.
23 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
24 second. All those in favor please say aye.
25 MR. MILLER: Aye.
7
1 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
2 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
3 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
4 Glorious Church, the same
5 situation. I'll entertain a motion to table the
6 land development plan for Glorious Church.
7 MR. MILLER: So moved.
8 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
9 Second to the motion?
10 MR. BAXTER: Second the motion.
11 MR. SINCAVAGE: Second. All
12 those in favor please say aye.
13 MR. MILLER: Aye.
14 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
15 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
16 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
17 Conditional use application for
18 Glorious Church. I thought that was supposed to be
19 at the end of February. Is there a deadline or are
20 they still on indefinitely?
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: I think they are
22 indefinite.
23 MR. SINCAVAGE: Okay.
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: There is another
25 -- well, no. That's a PRD, but not Glorious
8
1 Church.
2 MR. SINCAVAGE: Okay. I'll
3 entertain a motion to table Glorious Church
4 conditional use application.
5 MR. MILLER: So moved.
6 MR. BAXTER: Second.
7 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
8 second. All those in favor please say aye.
9 MR. MILLER: Aye.
10 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
11 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
12 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
13 Locust Ridge Quarry, nothing new
14 on that? Okay. We'll entertain a motion to table
15 Locust Ridge Quarry preliminary land development
16 plan.
17 MR. MILLER: So moved.
18 MR. BAXTER: Second.
19 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
20 second. All those in favor please say aye.
21 MR. MILLER: Aye.
22 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
23 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
24 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
25 John McElroy preliminary/final
9
1 land development plan, are they still being tabled?
2 I'll entertain a motion to table.
3 MR. MILLER: So moved.
4 MR. BAXTER: Second.
5 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
6 second. All those in favor please say aye.
7 MR. MILLER: Aye.
8 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
9 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
10 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
11 Pinecrest Phase 2, Section 3,
12 lot line adjustment. It's still being tabled.
13 So, I'll entertain a motion --
14 MR. McHALE: Lot 7, that is --
15 excuse me. That one, yes, we can table that.
16 MR. MILLER: I'll move to table
17 Pinecrest Phase 2, Section 3, lot line adjustment.
18 MR. BAXTER: Second.
19 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
20 seconded. All those in favor please say aye.
21 MR. MILLER: Aye.
22 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
23 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
24 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
25 Pinecrest Phase 2, Section 4,
10
1 same thing, right?
2 MR. McHALE: That is the Lot
3 A-7.
4 MR. SINCAVAGE: That's what's on
5 our agenda?
6 MR. McHALE: The one that's on
7 the agenda, yes, sir.
8 MR. SINCAVAGE: Okay. Then
9 we'll just move on. Let's get these finished up
10 first.
11 Kush and Sunny have requested --
12 sent in a letter to be tabled. Do I have a motion
13 to table.
14 MR. MILLER: So moved.
15 MR. BAXTER: Second.
16 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
17 seconded. All those in favor please say aye.
18 MR. MILLER: Aye.
19 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
20 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
21 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
22 Lands of Route 940, Pocono Motor
23 Sports, final land development plan. Are they
24 asking to be tabled too or are they still being
25 tabled?
11
1 MR. McHALE: Yes.
2 MR. SINCAVAGE: Do I have a
3 motion to table?
4 MR. MILLER: So moved.
5 MR. BAXTER: Second.
6 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
7 second. All those in favor please say aye.
8 MR. MILLER: Aye.
9 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
10 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
11 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
12 Subdivision of lands of Hoffman,
13 Hoffman and McShea.
14 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Good evening,
15 everyone and happy new year. I have a revised
16 print as a result of Bob's review for the proposed
17 subdivision. This is a proposed minor subdivision
18 of the lands of Lois Hoffman, Randy Hoffman and
19 Robin McShea. Randy and Robin are the children of
20 Lois Hoffman. It's a 67-acre parcel. It has
21 frontage on State Route 940 just west of the
22 interchange with State Route 380.
23 The parcel lies in two zoning
24 districts: Zoning District C and Zoning District
25 C/I. Zoning District C goes approximately 200 feet
12
1 back from 940. He has several areas of frontage or
2 they have several areas of frontage on 940.
3 There are some out parcels along 940. Those are
4 both used commercially and residentially. The
5 remaining tract, which is pie shaped, is bordered
6 by or joined by the Pocono Mountain School District
7 on the west side; American Freightways, which is
8 FedEx, on the east side; and Randy Hoffman's land
9 on the east side also.
10 The proposal of the subdivision
11 is to subdivide approximately 29 acres from the
12 rear of the parcel, which is located in the C/I
13 Zoning District, and join that onto the existing
14 lands of American Freightways. There has been
15 wetlands delineated. That was done back when
16 actually the school district purchased the land
17 from the Hoffmans. That's delineated on the plan.
18 There is notes on the plans saying that the
19 Proposed Lot 1 will be joined to and become an
20 inseparable part of the existing lands of American
21 Freightways.
22 The remaining land, which is
23 shown as Lot 2, is approximately 37 and a half
24 acres. The only improvements on that parcel are
25 what is known as the country stores, which is the
13
1 frontage to the east along 940. The only other
2 improvement is the existing driveway which serves
3 both the remaining lands of Hoffman and serves as
4 access to what was Pennsylvania 940 Station. And I
5 believe there is Tokyo Tea House, a hair salon and
6 a day care center, a commercial operation on that
7 out parcel that driveway serves.
8 And we did submit it to both the
9 township, which you're reviewing it this evening,
10 and the Monroe County Planning Commission. We
11 received comments back from the Monroe County
12 Planning Commission. Bob has reviewed it and
13 actually issued two review letters. With his first
14 letter we addressed the majority of his comments by
15 additions/revisions to the plan. He forwarded the
16 second review letter today. And what you see up
17 there highlighted in yellow is the revisions that
18 we made today, which I think addresses all of his
19 concerns and comments.
20 MS. HAASE: Terry, I had a
21 question. I had to pull up a subdivision that was
22 done back in the '90s for Gary Gallery. I think
23 Bob may have e-mailed you today.
24 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Yes.
25 MS. HAASE: I don't know if
14
1 you've had dialogue with him since. I didn't check
2 my e-mail. Was that resolved?
3 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Yes.
4 MS. HAASE: Okay.
5 MR. TERRY MARTIN: The last
6 presubdivision in your ordinance, I think it states
7 there are no -- you can only have one minor
8 subdivision every six years. The last previous was
9 in '99, when the school district obtained some
10 lands from the Hoffmans. So, it's been more than a
11 six-year period, so it still qualifies as a minor
12 subdivision.
13 MR. McHALE: I think Terry
14 already mentioned that there's also a lot
15 consolidation plan. And, Terry, you might want to
16 point out to them which lot line is going to be
17 extinguished between Lot 1 and the existing
18 American Freightways.
19 MR. TERRY MARTIN: This is the
20 rear of the American Freightways property now.
21 This is the Lot 1. This section adjoins American
22 Freightways. This lot line, we've added the note
23 that that lot line is to be extinguished. This
24 will go away. This will all be one tract then.
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: Terry, I think I
15
1 told you earlier today that you will need to
2 provide the township with the deed consolidating
3 that Lot No. 1 into the American Freightways
4 property.
5 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Right.
6 We prepared a meets and bounds description, added a
7 note at the end of it saying that we'll be joining
8 the two and become an inseparable part. Once it's
9 approved and the Hoffmans can convey that, then
10 American Freightways or FedEx will have to record a
11 new deed describing it all as one parcel.
12 MR. ARMSTRONG: And we also
13 talked about this. There is one thing that needs
14 to be clarified, is the deeds of the property to be
15 subdivided, we need to confirm that those are the
16 only owners of that property. There is language in
17 that deed. We just want to make sure those are the
18 only owners of the property being subdivided.
19 MR. TERRY MARTIN: The way it's
20 set up right now, there is actually two deeds to
21 the property, where Lois owns a percentage of it
22 and then Randy and Robin own a percentage also.
23 And the way it's spelled out in there, it almost
24 sounds like there could be a percentage yet out
25 there that's not accounted for. So, I'll speak
16
1 tomorrow with the Hoffmans' attorney and have them
2 communicate directly with Patrick to clarify that
3 language in the deed.
4 MR. McHALE: You might want to
5 mention about the nephew.
6 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Oh, yes.
7 Originally, there was -- I believe it was Lois's
8 nephew, Mr. Hackenburg (phonetic) was a trustee,
9 and he has been removed. We submitted the
10 documentation to verify that. Because on this
11 deed, as we recite that, his name still appears on
12 the deed; but subsequent to that deed being
13 recorded, he was removed as a trustee. So, the
14 township does have that document there also.
15 MR. ARMSTRONG: And just for
16 purposes of informing the planning commission, Bob,
17 some of those notes that you had the applicant add
18 to plan with respect to the requested waivers, some
19 of the waivers being requested are for, I believe,
20 stormwater drainage plans and landscaping. And the
21 note added to the plan was that if the township
22 were to grant those requested waivers, that any
23 future subdivision or land development on the
24 property would be subject to those requirements.
25 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Right.
17
1 Those are listed in here, the request for
2 modifications. And what we've done is we've put in
3 there that the modifications is one of time so that
4 it doesn't relinquish that from the next time that
5 they come in. So, we've added notes in the general
6 notes here stating that, that any future
7 subdivision or land development, they would have to
8 comply with those appropriate sections. There is
9 really nothing changing with this subdivision other
10 than a lot line at this time. Naturally, once
11 American Freightways, if they ever develop that or
12 the Hoffmans develop the remaining lands, then they
13 will have to address all the pertinent sections of
14 the ordinance.
15 MR. McHALE: One last item is
16 related to PennDOT. And, I believe, Terry, you
17 indicated that you've already spoken to them. And
18 they are going to get copies to you of the existing
19 highway occupancy permits for those two access
20 points.
21 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Actually,
22 they cannot find one for the country stores.
23 That was before 1980. They don't have any record
24 of anything before 1980. Apparently the basement
25 flooded sometime in '78 or '79. They cannot find
18
1 any documentation for that. They did find
2 documentation in their computer system for the
3 driveway that serves the remaining land and the
4 adjoining commercial properties. They haven't been
5 able to forward a hard copy of it yet because they
6 don't have that in Stroudsburg. They think they
7 have a copy of it in their Allentown office, their
8 district office. As soon as they get that, they
9 will forward that to me. If for some reason they
10 can't find a hard copy of the highway occupancy
11 permit, I'm going to ask them for some type of
12 documentation off of their computer system, just to
13 say they do have it on record as there being a
14 permit issued for that driveway. And then I'll
15 submit that to the township as well.
16 MR. ARMSTRONG: In the latest
17 review letter that the planning commission has, the
18 January 8, 2009 review letter from the township
19 engineer, in it it spells out, you know, comments
20 and requirements as well as the requested waivers.
21 Towards the end it also mentioned the possibility
22 -- the preparation of recording a development
23 agreement to define the intent of the proposal.
24 I'm not sure if we need a full-fledged development
25 agreement, but some kind of an agreement, maybe
19
1 even in the form of like a declaration, to cover
2 certain items like the future subdivision and land
3 development, if it were to occur, the requirements
4 for those drainage studies and whatnot. I can be
5 in contact with you to find the best body for that
6 document.
7 MR. TERRY MARTIN: That's fine.
8 The existing country stores, one of the things in
9 Bob's initial review was that where it's situated,
10 it doesn't meet the current setbacks for the front
11 yard. I had Randy fill out a certificate of
12 nonconformance, which he did with Phyllis.
13 And Phyllis has issued a certificate for that
14 existing nonconformance. We put a note on the plan
15 to state -- to make everyone aware that it doesn't
16 meet the current front yard setbacks.
17 Since there is existing sewage
18 on the FedEx property and sewage for the use on the
19 remaining lands, I spoke with John Brogan, the
20 sewage enforcement officer, and he agreed with me
21 that there is no requirement for any planning at
22 this time until any type of land development does
23 occur, since both the parcels have existing sewage
24 facilities located on them now.
25 MR. SINCAVAGE: Is that a sand
20
1 mound or is this a retention basin towards the back
2 there?
3 MR. TERRY MARTIN: That's the
4 basin existing. The sand mounds are out here.
5 There is actually three big absorption areas there.
6 MR. SINCAVAGE: And the
7 modifications, you wanted them listed in Bob's
8 letter?
9 MR. McHALE: Yes. The
10 modifications, they are listed on the drawings and
11 they are listed in the letter.
12 MR. SINCAVAGE: Okay. So, they
13 are asking for modifications to the whole Chapter
14 124?
15 MR. McHALE: Well, only with
16 respect to time, that they would not submit a
17 drainage study at this point in time because there
18 is nothing.
19 MR. SINCAVAGE: Right.
20 MR. ARMSTRONG: So, actually,
21 the waivers, if you're looking on page 4 of Bob's
22 letter, I think it's the waivers from No. 4 and No.
23 5, SALDO Sections 135-18.B, 13, 15 and 16, and
24 Chapter 124, the stormwater management. Both of
25 those would be, if you were to recommend approvals
21
1 of those, they would be conditional upon any -- the
2 correct way would probably be provided that any
3 future subdivision or land development on the
4 property would be subject to those requirements.
5 MR. SINCAVAGE: All right. And
6 that's in the general notes, too?
7 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Right.
8 MR. SINCAVAGE: No. 12, right,
9 on the general note?
10 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Yes. 14 and
11 10 and 12, yes. All those are time related,
12 though. Some of those were just like the locations
13 within 500 feet, unless you want to do it as a time
14 also.
15 MR. McHALE: I think it may be
16 easier in this case, Terry, and also to the
17 commission, just to do them all as a matter of
18 time, you know.
19 MR. TERRY MARTIN: That's fine.
20 MR. McHALE: Because half of
21 them are time, half are not. And the next time
22 they come in with a subdivision or land development
23 plan for the 37 acres or so that's up front, the
24 planning commission may want to see those 500 feet.
25 MR. TERRY MARTIN: That's fine.
22
1 MR. SINCAVAGE: Any questions
2 from the commission?
3 MR. ARMSTRONG: You want to do
4 the waivers first? If the commission would make a
5 motion for a recommendation this evening to grant
6 -- or to recommend the granting of the waivers, the
7 waivers would be to SALDO Section 135-12.D.2; SALDO
8 Section 135-15.A.15; SALDO Sections 135-17.L, M, Q
9 and V; SALDO Section 135-18.B, 13, 15 and 16; and
10 Chapter 124 of the stormwater management ordinance,
11 provided that in the future if there is any
12 subdivision or land development on the plan, that
13 those sections of the Tobyhanna Township Code of
14 Ordinances be fully complied with at that time.
15 MR. SINCAVAGE: Do I have a
16 motion?
17 MR. BAXTER: So moved.
18 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
19 Second to the motion?
20 MR. MILLER: Second.
21 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
22 seconded. All those in favor please say aye.
23 MR. MILLER: Aye.
24 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
25 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
23
1 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
2 MR. ARMSTRONG: And if the
3 planning commission were to make a recommendation
4 to recommend granting the final plan approval for
5 this subdivision, it would be -- and lot
6 consolidation, it would be conditional upon the
7 applicant complying with all the comments and
8 requirements in the township engineer's January 8,
9 2009 review letter; as well as conditional on the
10 applicant confirming the ownership of the property;
11 as well as the applicant providing the appropriate
12 deed consolidation for the consolidating lot into
13 the American Freightways property; as well as the
14 PennDOT HOP permit; as well as the applicant
15 executing the appropriate development agreement
16 and/or declaration to be acceptable to the
17 township.
18 MR. SINCAVAGE: Do I have a
19 motion?
20 MS. LAMBERTON: I make that
21 motion.
22 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
23 Do I have a second to the motion?
24 MR. MILLER: I'll second it.
25 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
24
1 second. All those in favor please say aye.
2 MR. MILLER: Aye.
3 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
4 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
5 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
6 MR. TERRY MARTIN: Thank you.
7 MR. SINCAVAGE: The next item on
8 our agenda is the -- what is that, Pinecrest Phase
9 2, Section 4, Lot 7, 1-A?
10 MR. McHALE: Yes, sir. A-7.
11 MR. SINCAVAGE: A-7.
12 MR. McHALE: It's the relocation
13 of a lot within approved final plan for Phase 2,
14 Sections 4 and 5.
15 MR. ARMSTRONG: It's more of a
16 revision to an already approved PRD plan rather
17 than a lot consolidation/minor subdivision. That's
18 how it's on the agenda.
19 MR. McHALE: That's correct.
20 MR. ARMSTRONG: Is anyone here
21 for Pinecrest this evening?
22 MR. SINCAVAGE: Did you review
23 this, Bob?
24 MR. McHALE: Yes.
25 MR. SINCAVAGE: Are we ready to
25
1 take action on this or do we need the applicant?
2 MR. McHALE: This is for Phase
3 2, Section 5, Lot A-7. Do you all have a plan that
4 you can view? Pull out the 11 by 17s that are in
5 front of you. A-7 was originally located right
6 here next to Lot TT. And they want to move it to
7 basically the north side of Road LL.
8 MR. SINCAVAGE: So, they are
9 taking that lot out and moving it over here?
10 MR. McHALE: Correct. So what
11 they need to do is they are going to be taking --
12 when they move that lot, they are going to be
13 increasing the open space on this portion and
14 decreasing -- taking it out of the open space, but
15 it's the same Open Space 12.
16 MR. MILLER: Right.
17 MR. McHALE: So, they are
18 taking it from the same open space, if you will.
19 The only question that we were trying to iron out
20 for the most part, I think, Pat, when we were
21 discussing it, was related to confirming ownership.
22 We received a bulk deed that included a number of
23 lots, and it was a matter of verifying Pinecrest
24 Lake.
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yes. I did a
26
1 quick -- just tax map parcel search. And the
2 current Lot A-7 does appear to be still in the name
3 of Pinecrest Lake, L.L.C. The open space is in the
4 name of Pinecrest Lake L.L.C., which means that can
5 be confirmed by the applicant. They can do the
6 deed and they can do this consolidation. So what
7 we would need from the applicant is a deed
8 consolidating the current Lot A-7 into the open
9 space and a deed creating Lot A-7.1 from the open
10 space. And that's something we'll need from the
11 applicant, you know, at a future date once and if
12 this is approved.
13 Like I said, this is a revision
14 to an already approved PRD. So any recommendation
15 would be subject to the applicant still complying
16 with all the requirements and conditions of the
17 previously approved PRD, with the exception of this
18 one revision.
19 MR. SINCAVAGE: Right.
20 MR. ARMSTRONG: We just want to
21 make clear that they are still tied and responsible
22 for all the other conditions of the approved
23 planned residential development.
24 MR. SINCAVAGE: Right.
25 MR. ARMSTRONG: And like Bob
27
1 said, there is a small drainage easement on the
2 corner of the lot being created. It's my
3 understanding from talking with Bob, that the
4 township, most likely -- or at least in this
5 development, has not taken any interest or wanted
6 to have enforceable right with respect to these
7 type of drainage easements. So marking it on the
8 plan would be sufficient. You don't need a
9 separate written easement if the township does not
10 want to have an interest in that.
11 MR. SINCAVAGE: Any questions?
12 MR. McHALE: The township would
13 just make sure it's shown on the drawing clearly,
14 that when someone would go to purchase it, it's a
15 record drawing. So, therefore, they could be aware
16 that there is a drainage easement that's impacting
17 that lot prior to purchase. But as far as the
18 details between the trust, which I think Note 15
19 does speak to that, and it states that all drainage
20 easements are to be in favor of the Pinecrest
21 trust. And that was on the original approved final
22 plan for this section as well.
23 MR. SINCAVAGE: So, Bob, are we
24 okay with this?
25 MR. McHALE: Yes, subject to any
28
1 of items that they would need to address with our
2 township solicitor.
3 MR. ARMSTRONG: And the only
4 thing I said was any recommendation would be
5 conditional upon us getting the appropriate deed --
6 consolidation of the deed creating a new lot, as
7 well as, you know, conditional upon all the other
8 conditions that they are required to comply with
9 from the previously approved PRD.
10 MR. SINCAVAGE: Do we have a
11 motion to that effect?
12 MR. MILLER: So moved.
13 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
14 MR. BAXTER: Second.
15 MR. SINCAVAGE: Motion and
16 second. Any questions? No. All those in favor
17 please say aye.
18 MR. MILLER: Aye.
19 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
20 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
21 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
22 MR. ARMSTRONG: And I wrote --
23 this is probably for Bob -- on the agenda it's
24 Section 4.
25 MR. McHALE: That's incorrect.
29
1 It's actually Section 5, and they did correct that
2 on their drawing. They originally submitted their
3 application as Phase 2, Section 4, and their
4 drawing had shown that as well, but it was actually
5 Section 5. So, they have corrected that.
6 MR. ARMSTRONG: It is Section 5?
7 MR. McHALE: Correct. The
8 applicant had requested that we look at two
9 different lots. One, I believe, was Lot 209, which
10 we addressed in a previous review, in Phase 2,
11 Section 3. But it's my understanding that Phase 2,
12 Section 3, many of the lots within that section are
13 actually owned by Westminster as well as the open
14 spaces and such. It's my understanding that the
15 applicant is trying to work through that issue to
16 get the approvals to change those lot lines,
17 because I believe Mr. DeLucca had purchased a few
18 of those lots perhaps from Westminster. So, there
19 are several owners in the Pinecrest development.
20 And we want to make sure that we are clear as far
21 as who is owning and conveying and those things.
22 MR. SINCAVAGE: Okay. So there
23 is -- we tabled Phase 2, Section 3.
24 MR. McHALE: Lot 209, correct.
25 MR. SINCAVAGE: But what about
30
1 Phase 2, Section 4?
2 MR. McHALE: Well, there is no
3 Phase 2, Section 4. They had originally made a
4 mistake on their application.
5 MR. SINCAVAGE: So that's a
6 mistake?
7 MR. McHALE: Correct. What we
8 are really looking at is Phase 2, Section 5, Lot
9 A-7, which became Lot A-7.1.
10 MR. BAXTER: I've got a
11 question. In terms of the lot that is to the north
12 of this new lot that is being created, is there any
13 requirement either on the part of the developer or
14 anyone else to notify him that what was open space
15 is now changing and going to become a developed
16 lot?
17 MR. SINCAVAGE: Good question.
18 MR. BAXTER: I'm just thinking
19 he bought thinking it was nothing but open space.
20 It was an approved plan.
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yes. I didn't
22 check the ownership of that lot. You're talking
23 about the lot, it looks like --
24 MR. BAXTER: Looks like 97,
25 Phase 1-B.
31
1 MR. SINCAVAGE: Yes. And then
2 there is green space in between.
3 MS. LAMBERTON: Yes. What is
4 that? Can you see the footage on that? I can't
5 see it.
6 MR. MILLER: In between?
7 MS. LAMBERTON: Yes.
8 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yes. I mean, I
9 can -- we can have them -- they may still own that
10 property. They may not have sold that lot off yet,
11 because I know the current Lot A-7 was not sold off
12 yet. I don't know how many of these lots they have
13 sold and how many they have not.
14 MR. McHALE: Being that that's
15 part of a different phase, and I think that's Phase
16 1-B, it's likely I think that they may have
17 already -- but we don't know. We can check.
18 MR. BAXTER: I mean, if they
19 owned it, it would be a moot point.
20 MR. ARMSTRONG: Right. I guess
21 we don't know at this point. We can definitely
22 make that part of your recommendation, if you want
23 to confirm that this be disclosed to that current
24 owner if it's not the Pinecrest Lake, L.L.C.
25 MR. BAXTER: Would they have any
32
1 rights? I guess that's a question again, other
2 than --
3 MR. ARMSTRONG: If they would,
4 it would be more of a private property dispute.
5 MR. McHALE: There is still
6 going to be approximately 50 feet of separation
7 between the lot line of Lot 97 and the setback line
8 of what would be buildable for an improvement on
9 Lot A-7.1 due to the wetland setback as well as the
10 open spaces between them.
11 MR. BAXTER: Just curious.
12 MR. McHALE: That's a good
13 point.
14 MR. SINCAVAGE: Do you want to
15 make that motion to the board of supervisors -- or
16 recommendation to the board of supervisors?
17 MR. BAXTER: Yes. I mean if
18 there wouldn't be any rights that that owner would
19 have -- my thought was, if somebody bought that
20 lot, if it is separately owned and they bought it
21 based on an existing plan. So that plan changes,
22 is there a notification requirement? If they have
23 no rights, then there would be nothing to build
24 into the motion. If it's Pinecrest that owns it,
25 then it's a moot point.
33
1 MR. ARMSTRONG: Unfortunately,
2 the applicant is not here. We don't know who owned
3 it originally.
4 MR. BAXTER: I mean, I'm just
5 thinking if I owned that lot and then suddenly I
6 bought it thinking I would never have a neighbor
7 and now I do, based on the plan changing, I might
8 be a little --
9 MR. ARMSTRONG: No. It's a good
10 valid point.
11 MR. BAXTER: So it's a point of
12 law, I guess, in terms of notification and
13 requirement.
14 MR. ARMSTRONG: I mean, there is
15 no harm in recommending to the township that they
16 require the applicant to provide that disclosure,
17 you know, the rights of that property owner.
18 I'm not sure what the open space -- I would have to
19 look at the final PRD plan approval description of
20 the open space, the language and the description of
21 the open space in that plan
22 MR. BAXTER: They are
23 subdividing what was on the plan as open space.
24 MR. ARMSTRONG: Open space,
25 right.
34
1 MR. SINCAVAGE: Why don't we
2 leave it with Bob to note -- to bring our concern
3 to the board of supervisors at their meeting?
4 MR. BAXTER: That's fine.
5 MR. McHALE: Okay.
6 MR. SINCAVAGE: All right.
7 Time waivers we're in need of for Wee-Wons and
8 Pinecrest Phase 2, Section 3 and Phase 2, Section
9 4.
10 MR. ARMSTRONG: I think we
11 received both of them.
12 MR. SINCAVAGE: Okay. And the
13 next item on our agenda is Brick City. Bob, any
14 update?
15 MR. McHALE: The PennDOT highway
16 occupancy permit, they now are in a position to, as
17 the applicant, to resubmit. And they've been
18 notified that that's acceptable to resubmit to
19 PennDOT. And this was based upon the board of
20 supervisors reviewing a fair share contribution for
21 improvement as part of the intersection, and they
22 looked at that last month. So, the applicant's
23 engineer was notified of all that information.
24 So, it's really in their court to bring some
25 information back to us and submit it to PennDOT.
35
1 MR. SINCAVAGE: Any questions on
2 it? Does anyone have anything they would like to
3 bring out during the public meeting portion?
4 Then I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
5 MR. BAXTER: So moved.
6 MR. SINCAVAGE: I have a motion.
7 MR. MILLER: Second.
8 MR. SINCAVAGE: Seconded. Joe
9 seconded it. All those in favor please say aye.
10 MR. MILLER: Aye.
11 MR. BAXTER: Aye.
12 MS. LAMBERTON: Aye.
13 MR. SINCAVAGE: Aye.
14 (Meeting adjourned at 7:35 p.m.)
15 ---
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7 I hereby certify that the
8 proceedings and evidence are contained fully and
9 accurately in the notes taken by me, to the best of
10 my ability, at the meeting in the above matter; and
11 that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript
12 of the same.
13
14
15 __________
16 JOSEPHINE HOLLMAN, C.R.
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